Zed wrote:

/\/\/\ I think that summary is spot on. I’ve seen a few new Defenders parked now and 2 thoughts always immediately spring to mind: Firstly, thank goodness I already own a decent classic Defender, and secondly I need to buy a Disco 4 before the good’un’s dry up.

RobKeay wrote:

Oh no Grenadier someone is using their new 110....

https://youtube.com/shorts/ryvpBal9xG8

RobKeay wrote:

Just need to be brave enough to put someone else's £45k plus in a massive muddy puddle.

Supacat wrote:

RobKeay wrote:

Oh no Grenadier someone is using their new 110....

https://youtube.com/shorts/ryvpBal9xG8

Isn't that a JLR press car on a press day?



So thats:

RobKeay wrote:

Just need to be brave enough to put someone else's £45k plus in a massive muddy puddle.

RobKeay wrote:

Thought it was pretty impressive.

Then I was sure remembering people saying they would never be used off road.
.

Quite right too. And I know they will be (both used, and 'impressive) as I've only ever said they appear to be an excellent vehicle. But I've also never said they would 'never' be used off road. I've only ever maintained the majority won't be (just like the majority of the excellent and popular Disco 3/4). Further, that despite its clear abilities, at its pricepoint and with its lack of adaptability, it's moved far away from being a fully (and primarily) utilitarian vehicle as per the Puma/pre-Puma incarnations. 70 years of history gone.

In 100 years time how will the New Defender be considered when car historians look back. Personally I think it will be clubbed together with SUVs including the Disco family. The old Defender will be clubbed together with Jeeps, Old Toyotas, Isuzus, Nissans etc. Historians, journalists and fans of classic cars will pour over hundreds if not thousands of variants of the old Defender, (the overlander, the stock variant, the modded bling street car, the farming vehicle, the fire vehicle, the military vehicle, the electrical company, the tow truck, the cherry picker, the cocktail bar, the pizza oven, the camper, thé SW, the Arctic explorer, the 4x4 competitor, the rally competitor, the UN vehicle, the electricians vehicle, the plumbers vehicle, even, as much as I dislike it, the six-wheeled Khan). And the photos of these models will be taken everywhere, in all regions, across all demographics, in all terrain over decades of use.

For the new Defender they will look at a handful of photos that are of near identical vehicles in near identical environments and owned by mostly wealthy, private owners. Just like the Disco. Of course there will be exceptions, people are individuals, but I don't think the majority will load it up with kit and head into the centre of Africa. The 'majority', not 'all' and not 'never'.

No doubt people will say that of most Puma owners and they're probably right, but that's private ownership. There were more than enough companies, NGOs, armed forces, farms, governments, expeditions etc that ensured Defenders were used for what their DNA and heritage intended. I don't think that can be said of the new Defender, so to me it is NOT a Defender. It still seems to be debated that this WILL happen with the new Defender, but I cannot see any evidence as it is twice as expensive as it should be and offers all the non-private owners no opportunity to adapt, modify or individualisé the vehicle.

I'm not sure how that point of view gets changed to 'I hate it' or 'it's ' or 'I don't like the people who've bought it and think they're arsholes' or 'it will NEVER be used off road'. Loook at 70 years of old Defender ownership and usage, and tell me that Gerry and JLR see this doing 70 years more of the same. It won't. Therefore, name on the bonnet aside, it's not a Defender. IMHO.

To put it another way, will posters like these ever be made of the New Defender. If not, surely that's an argument to say that the DNA of the new Defender is different to that of the old. More Disco than Def.


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 Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

RobKeay wrote:

Just need to be brave enough to put £45k plus in a massive muddy puddle.

Gareth wrote:

RobKeay wrote:

Just need to be brave enough to put £45k plus in a massive muddy puddle.

I don’t think I’d be brave enough to put my new 110 through that. I have in the past put my Disco 3 and 4 through similar with no ill effects. I’m sure my 110 would do it without problem, in fact it would probably do it better than not only my Discovery’s, and certainly my Series Land Rovers, but even the 90 I sold recently. They would all probably leak, or get Cross-axles or something! The 110 I’m pretty certain wouldn’t leak, and I’d put money on it not getting cross-axled.

However, I’ve ticked that box now, no need to do it out of choice. It’s nice to know that if Armageddon struck and I had to do it, it would with ease.

Let’s be honest, in a hypothetical situation, your running from certain death in the jaws of an alien creature that’s hunting you down. You come to a fast flowing river that’s of unknown depth, and you can’t see the river bed. There’s a new 110 and a 2015 110 sat by the river bank with the keys in the ignition. You hesitate, you die in the jaws of the alien, which vehicle do you choose? I’d probably jump in and swim to be honest!

Id jump in the new one and lock the door. 130's have feeling's as well you know

Fat Cog wrote:

Supacat wrote:

RobKeay wrote:

Oh no Grenadier someone is using their new 110....

https://youtube.com/shorts/ryvpBal9xG8

Isn't that a JLR press car on a press day?



So thats:

RobKeay wrote:

Just need to be brave enough to put someone else's £45k plus in a massive muddy puddle.

Once under duress this sounded really nice...almost chipped TD5'ish!

Not sure that’s the sound they were aiming for from their petrol engine  24MY 90 D250 HSE, Tasman Blue