 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > 2020 Defender main discussion thread |
 
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018   
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Perhaps, as much as 18%? Cars registered for the first time by make and model, United Kingdom - updated to include 2020 Q3. The data is difficult to pull details from on the basis of  in, out, so it's open to a degree of interpretation, especially on what are actually new Defenders; but I gave it an honest go.
Click image to enlarge https://www.gov.uk/government/organisation...statistics |
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23rd Jan 2021 8:56am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5850  
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I never quite understand how registration in the UK works. If a dealer has a demo model, is that 'registered'? Is that counted as a new sale? And could they be a large part of those for sale on line, perhaps dealers getting rid of demo vehicles with the discontinued engine/spec? Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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23rd Jan 2021 10:32am |
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| milesr3 Member Since: 12 Feb 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 873 
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Seems more likely to be people cutting their cloth rather than speculative flippers. I'm in the position of not really needing two cars anymore; one hasn't turned a wheel in over three weeks and that was only the renew the MOT.
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23rd Jan 2021 10:33am |
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| Simon Audi Member Since: 19 Nov 2020 Location: Newport Posts: 544
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Yes - Demo Models are registered to the Garage (Dealers) or a JLR Company (JLR Demos and Management Cars) So they are considered Sold... That is why there is lots of Low Mileage and Pre Reg Cars available. I would guess a significant portion of the UK Defender Sales over the last year has been to Dealers or JLR... Would be interesting to know the % that are True Sales to Private / Company and How Many are JLR Related Sales Probably 30% to 50% of the Sales in the first year? (THAT IS A GUESS) |
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23rd Jan 2021 11:08am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Or they've looked at the Defender and then gone and bought something else like in Spain? Click image to enlarge Yes there's been a pandemic and it's hit cars sales overall but it's a market that heavily striated; and not all niches or sectors have suffered equally, and it's clear that certain of these have suffered very little if at all during 2020. It's also true certain manufacturer/model combinations have sold well/decently compared with previous years. |
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23rd Jan 2021 12:08pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5850
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^^^ As I’ve believed from the launch, thie Defender doesn’t clearly sit in any 4x4/SUV category, let alone top them. It’s not the most luxurious, it’s not got German reliability and road manners, it’s not cheap, it’s not properly utilitarian, it’s not cheap and fully loaded like American SUVs, it’s not family friendly, it’s not an urban SUV, it’s not an expedition vehicle, it’s not a modifier’s dream etc etc etc. It’s a little bit of everything, but not completely one thing. If it was priced like a Prado, maybe people would consider it more, but it’s not. It’s priced like a Q7. Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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23rd Jan 2021 5:21pm |
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2760
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Most of those accusations could have been levelled at the Disco 4 and it was one of the most successful cars around...? Cheers, David
Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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23rd Jan 2021 5:23pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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3 weeks 
I've got access to 4 Road registered vehicles, and I reckon the ride on mower has had more mileage put on it since last March than all the others combined.  |
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23rd Jan 2021 5:34pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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It might be an impossible question but what vehicles are it's natural competitors? Or put it another way ~ what are the cars being driven today, that the new Defender is supposed to steal new owners from? Is there any one class? Or is it just the butterfly owner, that likes to flit from one type of vehicle to another and defies any sort of neat pigeonholing? A la carte dining or all you can eat buffet... |
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23rd Jan 2021 5:47pm |
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2760
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Well for starters I know a lot of people who never upgraded from D4 to Disco 5 when they turned it into the soft family car it is now...
That and people who feel that the product range from VAG/BMW/Mercedes have gone too road - biased. Times gone by you saw Mercedes ML’s out on shoots etc; I wouldn’t trust many modern SUVs from the Germans on a snowy day now. And don’t forget as you say the “floating voters” who just jump into interesting/fun cars as they come out. Cheers, David Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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23rd Jan 2021 6:04pm |
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| SN Member Since: 29 Jun 2007 Location: SK6 Posts: 729 |
In my opinion the Disco 3/4 were 5 cars in one - not in any particular order
1. People Carrier . . . . . . a match for a big MPV like the old Espace 2. Motorway Cruiser . . . . wafts along like big Beemer/Merc - but not at the traffic light grand prix 3. Offroader Supreme . . . as good as an old Defender 4. Transit Van . . . . . . . . . row 2 & 3 seats down just cavernous inside 5. Executive Transport . . . nearly as good as a Full Fat Range Rover And as a combination better than anything else on the road because there was nothing that could do ALL 5 as well. Disco 5 probably lost Mode #4 only - Modes #1 #2 and #5 I'm sure are equal on the Disco 5, but how many are/were used in Mode #3. I happened to pass by another forum member's house this morning "on the way to doing food shopping" (cough, yes honestly and I have the receipt to prove it) who has a New Defender and almost the first words as we social distanced chatted was "its basically a Discovery!". But thinking about my 5 modes assertion above, what's interesting is that I know it doesn't do Mode #4 as well as a Disco 3/4 either... Happy to be shot down... just my opinion Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history) |
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23rd Jan 2021 11:27pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3328 
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/\/\/\ I think that summary is spot on. I’ve seen a few new Defenders parked now and 2 thoughts always immediately spring to mind: Firstly, thank goodness I already own a decent classic Defender, and secondly I need to buy a Disco 4 before the good’un’s dry up. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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24th Jan 2021 12:05am |
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| Gareth Member Since: 12 Dec 2011 Location: Woodford Posts: 1112 
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A D4 parked nose to nose with my Defender the other day (in Lyme Park in case anyone around here)
As I walked up to the cars it was very apparent that they have very similar lines. The bonnet line to windscreen, the general stance are very similar. The Defender is noticeably shorter from the rear wheel back. Makes me wonder what the 130 will be like when (if ever) we see it? Will it maybe have a different rear door arrangement? 2021 Defender 110 X-Dynamic HSE D300 MHEV 1966 S2a 109 aka Betsy |
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24th Jan 2021 8:07am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5850
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But that was actually its selling point. That it could do/be a bit of everything, much like the original Defender, just smarter and comfier. But that was in the day when there were almost no SUVs available and certainly not 7-seaters with genuine off road ability. Now there are loads. Every single brand has not one, but many SUVs available and given the vast majority of people buy them for a combination of comfort, space, safety, driver position on roads, the 4x4 is only valuable for inclement weather, Not Off roading. A further difference between the Disco 3/4 and the New Defender, I believe, was that it looked clearly more SUV than all terrain warrior (despite it's clear capabilities off road) so sat alongside other SUVs as a viable option. Yes, this Defender can do what the Disco did and be all things to all men, hence why so many feel it is a more worthy successor to the Disco family, but not many people think that way anymore. If you want a.... Ultra Luxury SUV you'd look at Roller, Bentley - New Def not luxurious enough Sports SUV (for when the 5l is launched): Lamborghini, Maserati, Aston, Porsche, other Merc AMG or RRS - New Def won't handle as well or have the same cachet for the target audience. Premium: Range Rover, Aston Martin, Porsche, Maserati or SQ8 - New Def Not as comfortable or luxurious Executive: X6/5, Merc C/E Class, Audi Q5/7, Porsche, VW Touareg, RRS, Velar - New Def Not as road biased, fast or as good an offering on lease as the Germans Mid priced: Seat, VW, Toyota, Nissan, Disco Sport or Évoque etc - New Def not nearly cheap enough but also arguably too big for many. Budget: Skoda, Ford, Renault Jimny and other Japanese classics - Same thinking as per mid priced Utilitarian: Japanese flatbed classics - New Def Not cheap enough to be genuinely utilitarian. It can be used in a utilitarian way for people with deep pockets (like Harry Metcalfe), but that's not the same thing. A Bentley could be as well. Overland: Jeep, Japanese or possibly the New Def - if you had the money and were happy buying primarily LR accessories. I'd suggest most (not all) won't be. Off road fun: Japanese, Jeep or Bronco - again, Not many will have the budget (or the will) to buy and risk damaging a vehicle twice as expensive as its competitors US market: Caddie, Lincoln, Ford, Jeep - New Def is not 'Made in America' and is not fully loaded for $40k and for off roading is not modifiable. It is modifiable for an urban setting with 22" wheels so might sell well wealthy Urban US buyers. Clearly, a New Defender covers many of the categories above, but it doesn't really top any of them, or even come in the top three. In my opinion it doesn't really sit well in any class. So what is its purpose and target market? Honest target, not marketing or Jerry psychobable. There will always be exceptions, but you don't want to sell to the exception, you want to sell to the masses, so who are they. It's a clearly capable, clearly well thought out car, but it's main problem, (once you ignore its limited flexibility and adaptability as offered by the previous Def), is price. It's way too expensive. I'd think it would do a far better job if it was half the price, but at 70k for one with sensible add ons, that's hard to swallow for most or is heading into the territory or luxury SUV which it ain't. Disco 3/4 was cheaper, covered many of the categories Ive mentioned, and if you look at those categories almost none of the alternatives were available back then. New Def is too expensive and sits in a marketplace with hundreds of alternatives that are either better or cheaper (or both) in each category. It can win a Million journalists awards, but they're not the one forking out to buy it so instead can focus on how capable it is and leave it there. A buyer can rarely ignore the price and I think many won't feel it offers them the right value for what they want, or, at a given top end price point, will feel it lacks luxury, speed, handling, prestige etc. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey Last edited by Grenadier on 24th Jan 2021 8:45am. Edited 2 times in total |
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24th Jan 2021 8:08am |
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