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Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

NAS lighting - going for an OEM NAS look - advice

Hi folks.

There's plenty of threads asking about NAS lighting, but this one is a little different - so hoping that there may be some knowledge I can glean before I start spending money.

When the NAS Nefenders came out, I was 10-years old and quickly became obsessed - every article I could find fought for space with Baywatch posters on my walls. Having owned virtually every other LR model, its taken 25 years but I've finally got a Defender of my own.

I have a 2010 90 CSW - don't worry, I'm not planning on fitting Freestyle alloys and going for an NAS replica - but the lighting is one little nod that I will be doing.

Rather than simply replace the existing lamps with 95mm variants - I'm planning on doing an exact change by changing the rear corner capping to the NAS variants as shown below:

[img]https://www.defendersource.com/attachments/img_9140-jpg.449945/[/img]

This will let me move the brake lamps down, closing off the hole with the capping and the cut-out will allow me to have the three NAS lamps along the bottom row in exactly the right place.

Just a few questions that I'm hoping someone can help with.

1) Rear lamp positioning. Is is safe to assume that in order to position the lamps right, some of the existing holes will be in the wrong place? I do plan on asking on one of the US forums for a drilling template for the rear quarters. While I wouldn't be happy elongating a hole to get the position right, its not an issue as the restoration workshop I use regularly TIG LR bodywork and I could simply have the redundant holes filled.

2) Front lamp positioning. In this case I think I'm right in saying that no holes need to be altered as I think the Factory NAS Defender front lamps had hole centres in exactly the same place. Does anyone disagree?

3) My existing rear lamps. I have factory-fitted 95mm Fog and Reversing lights. These are already Perei units - I've never had the lenses off - as a standard CSW am I right in thinking that these will be standard filament bulbs (rather than LED as seen on some LR special editions?)

4) The big one. I'd like to put together a full parts list so that I can start ordering the parts I need.

So far this is the list I've put together:

The biggest problem I'm having at the moment is finding L.E. Perei lamps that aren't LED. I'm sure they used to sell these for about £8, but I can't find them anywhere. The standard rear fog, for example - part number LR048201 - a 95mm Perei unit is only £8 from Brit-car: https://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/448...07_onwards. I just wish I could find the rest of the lamps to match at that price.

9th Nov 2020 9:11pm

SteveG

Member Since: 29 Nov 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 659

Dun Bri will be able to supply them...
https://www.dun-bri.com/catalogue/results....Perei+95mm

9th Nov 2020 9:44pm

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

1. Yes, if you want a standard filament bulb unit to fit then the hole is in the wrong place. However, if you choose an LED unit then there's a much simpler solution that will achieve the same visual effect:

Click image to enlarge

Details here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/post861046.html#861046

2. Yes, I disagree. The front light positions were very different on a NAS vehicle, and two of the lights weren't NAS versions:

The 95mm light in the above picture is much lower than on our vehicles and also further inboard and presumably, the panel behind is adapted to suit. I doubt that set up would be road legal in the UK either.

To fit 95mm lamps to the front you either need to cut the panel to suit, which means moving them inboard to avoid the raised lip of the plastic headlight finisher, or use stepped plinths as supplied by Bolt on Bits. I'm a big fan of NAS lights and this is the front of mine using those plinths:

Click image to enlarge

3. Yes, they'll be standard filament bulbs.

Can't help with no.4, I'm afraid. I think that Perei only make the LED versions now and very nice they are, too. I recently swapped to their stop/tail lights (from Dun Bri) as they're a good match for the originals but with all the benefits of LED's:

Click image to enlarge Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

9th Nov 2020 10:32pm

Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

Thanks Steve - looks like a good site.

UPDATE: thanks to Steve above, when I searched the Dun Bri site for Perei 95mm lamps, I kept getting hits for "LITE-wire" branded lamps. Never having heard of them before I assumed that I was being fobbed-off with a no-name brand alternative.

But, a bit of a google shows that they are now one in the same company: https://www.lite-wire.com/about-us/

9th Nov 2020 10:32pm

Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

Darren - thank you very much for such a comprehensive reply!

I hadn't realised that the LED lamps were effectively surface mounting with no protrusion. If I was to go that route then the money saved from the TIG welding would easily cover the difference in price between the filament and LED type lamps.

9th Nov 2020 10:37pm

Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

Another update:

After Darren's pointer on the front panel, I thought the front wings headlamp panels would be a nightmare - looked up the genuine LR NAS parts and they're £283 for a pair... but, a bit of googling shows that they're actually just Euro-spec panels with two extra holes cut into the bottom corners for the NAS front lights.

See here:

Click image to enlarge.

and here:

Click image to enlarge

Looks like the only special thing about the wings are the different plastic surrounds, which are surprisingly inexpensive to buy from Land Rover and these cover the unused Euro-spec hole by design.

So - with the correct rear corner cappings found, inexpensively, then subject to getting the lamp placement measurements from a US forum I can sort the rear lamps so I have a run of 3+3 lamps across the bottom of the tub (NAS is 3+2 but we have fog lamps too) and the new capping will cover the redundant original high brake lamp hole.

like this:

Click image to enlarge

...and subject to buying a pair of donor TD5 headlamp panels and a pair of genuine NAS plastic surrounds, I can get the placement perfect on the front (with the odd, but NAS-correct mix of one euro lamp and one 95mm lamp - albeit with UK-legal lens colours having a clear upper and amber lower lens). Hell - judging from the tip above about LED lamps not needing a big hole behind them there's a chance that I can fit them onto the existing panels and feed the wire up and through the original indicator hole, so I wouldn't even need to cut up a pair of donor panels.

From a legality perspective, other than changing from OEM to NAS-spec lamp units, I'd be lowering the rear brake/tail lights down to tub-level and lowering the front indicators by a couple of inches, so I'll have to do some homework to make sure it doesn't breach any DVSA/C+U/MOT legislation.

Having worked out the way to get the right front lights, I'm now still debating whether to actually do the fronts - with the revelations above its really not that much work but it does look a little odd. I'll look into the lamp option fitted to the run-out models (95mm LED at the back and clear indicators at the front) to see if I prefer that before I get out the holesaw.

An odd, but (for me) fun project to go get on with.

10th Nov 2020 12:11am

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

The other thing to bare in mind is that later NAS models had a different front light set up, much the same as ours with 73mm lights but again with two orange lenses. Depends which look you're after really. As I say though, I doubt that the amber side lights are legal in the UK. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

10th Nov 2020 7:16am

Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

Thanks Darren - while I might duplicate the design of light I'd certainly keep the colours the same as in the UK - so no orange sidelights. Much like the Japanese version of the NAS 90.

10th Nov 2020 10:38am

JimC

Member Since: 22 Jan 2011
Location: NOVA
Posts: 164

2007 Defender 130 300 Tdi HCPU Arles Blue

I’ve got three NAS Defenders and they all have different light placements. Looks like you’re going for the 95/97-style with the 95mm round lights. 93 and 94 vehicles had the square “rubbolite” units that are actually quite durable and good. The 95mm lights have only become tolerable with the availability of good LEDs.

Regarding placement of the rear lights, it’s both simple and complex. The simple part is that it’s not a problem to just copy the dimensions from a 95 or 97 NAS but the problem is made complex by the fact that some incorrect parts have crept into the supply stream.

I recently converted a puma tub for NAS rear lights and found that the LR-supplied replacement rear panels had the holes all placed 10mm too far outboard. This error means that the light plinth sits on top of the capping instead of sitting nicely in the cutaway section. Additionally, some of the capping available have the cutaway section placed too high. The only way to really get it right is to install your capping (at least with cleco clamps) and the fit the outside light plinth. It will probably cover all your existing holes but, as you stated you can tig up any extras. Then just work your way inward allowing 10mm between each plinth. On the inside you should have a 20mm-ish gap between the plinth and the door aperture. This of course all applies to the left side of the car that has the backup light,

Moving the wiring isn’t really hard, it’s just a bit of a pain to convert a harness if it’s installed in the vehicle. You need the turn signal pigtail to be inside the wheel well not inside the body. The easiest way to do this would be to use a little harness extension and feed the ends of the wires up from below before installing them into the connector. No way are you gonna fit a connector through that little rubber gasket.

Another consideration is the back up light and the fog light. You’ll need to make a harness extension to move the back up light to the left hand side, which is easy, but NAS trucks never had rear fog lights. You could install one on the right side to make two sets of three lights but that would start to deviate from the NAS look. I personally would just use the square one on a separate mount, maybe under a NAS-style rear bumper.

Anyway, I’ve attached some, pictures in case they’re helpful.

10th Nov 2020 11:49am

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1777

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White

If you"re set on a NAS look, run two orange lamps as indicators each side and a 7" headlamp with a sidelight for legality?

Keith

10th Nov 2020 12:28pm

Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

Jim - that's phenomenally helpful thank you! Yes, on the rear its a '97 MY configuration I'm looking at.

This is a stock photo of a 97MY SW I have that I'm looking to emulate, which in all other respects - from the rear - is a near clone of the rear of my Red 2010 90 CSW - or at least it will be when I've fitted the NAS rear step and an enamel badge in place of the slightly peeling Defender sticker.

Click image to enlarge

The key difference will be the light placement. Where the NAS 90 has:

Tail/Brake | Indicator | Reverse----------&----------Indicator | Tail/Brake

mine will have:

Indicator | Tail/Brake | Reverse----------&----------Fog | Tail/Brake | Indicator

Its reassuring to read that the LR replacement panels had holes in the wring place - makes me feel better about moving and TIGing my existing holes.

I have two sets of part numbers for the rear cappings, one superseding the other, so I'd guess this is where some of the placement changes happened for the lower cutouts:

The original cappings are listed as ALR8082 & ALR8081, but ALR8082 has been superseded by AQL710060. Frustratingly one capping is cheap at £37 but the other side is closer to £120.

So, get the capping, position the first lamp correctly, then just "work inward allowing 10mm between each plinth. On the inside you should have a 20mm-ish gap between the plinth and the door aperture."

That's exactly the measurements I needed and your photos are incredibly helpful.

Physicaly fitting them and making small extension looms with Econoseal connectors on each side of the grommet is no issue. The only X-factor I have now is the legality of moving the brake light down and to a central position - I'll have to do some more research.

10th Nov 2020 1:28pm

JimC

Member Since: 22 Jan 2011
Location: NOVA
Posts: 164

I’ve got a set of the “slightly wrong” NAS cappings- They match side to side, but they’re obviously no good for putting in an existing NAS where you need to line up with the existing holes. But they’d be ideal for your application. You can have these for $100 for the pair plus shipping. The cutout section is just 3-4mm too high up the side - visually indistinguishable until you try to install them on your personal NAS truck...

10th Nov 2020 1:52pm

Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

Hi Jim - thank you very much. I might come back to you on these, if they haven't sold by then. I'm just getting some advice on lighting regulations at the moment to make sure the plan isn't going to fall foul of the law and then I'll try to find a correct pair locally at a decent price - the LH side is cheap, but one of the parts suppliers might have the RH one somewhere gathering dust.

If I pass the legal hurdle and then if I get stuck on finding a RH side one at a sensible price then I'll certainly drop you a line.

10th Nov 2020 2:29pm

L90Andy

Member Since: 29 May 2014
Location: Stratford-Upon-Avon
Posts: 717

Like this project

I'd have thought you'd be fine for height, plenty of sports/kit cars have them lower.
There's a RH side one on ebay, slightly cheaper than you mention: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273988132637
Good luck Instagram: l90andy

2006 Land Rover 90 TD5 CSW Silver Edition

My 1984 Ninety: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56071.html - SOLD!
My 2015 Defender: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic39625.html - SOLD!

10th Nov 2020 2:31pm

Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

Thanks Andy - good spot. That's the superseded part number, so fingers crossed its an exact match for the older part number ALR8081 LH side which I can get from LR for £35 and that the cut-out doesn't move slightly like those that Jim has come across in the past. Only way to tell is to buy them - but I'm keeping my powder dry for a few days on that.

I've just asked over on LR4x4 re: the lighting regs - some of the guys there are phenomenally knowledgeable about legislation on modifications/kit cars/special builds/etc. Keeping my fingers crossed that I get a green light!

10th Nov 2020 2:35pm

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