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Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

Land Rover should be ashamed.....

TFL’s New Defedner is now 3 weeks off the road, unusable so they need a replacement for the camera team.....not a Bronco, not a Jeep, not another Land Rover that’s for sure, they bought Toyota’s fashion statement suv
Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

31st Oct 2020 3:58pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Hard to believe, verging on the almost impossible, that JLR didn't offer them a loan vehicle.

As to JLR being ashamed, perhaps for not fixing the vehicle in a shorter length of time, I actually think the situation is more one of embarrassment that they seem incapable of fixing it. Is that a lack of core competencies when dealing with such a box of electronics?

I do wonder when a manufacturer boasts that there are 23,000 lines of code in an electric seat, who within the company actually has an ability to understand the workings of the full vehicle as a whole, rather than just be a sub~component specialist with no clue to any other sub~component.

I think the situation with JLR, and it may be common to other manufacturers, is that some systems are coded by external programmers brought in on short term contracts. They leave a product that works, but when it needs altering it's done by someone else; and with the best will in the world that can produce bugs, and clashes that don't manifest themselves immediately.

31st Oct 2020 6:58pm

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2647

I would also be surprised if they hadn’t been offered a loaner while it’s in for repair, however these guys are in the business of making money on YouTube and big negative click bait headlines draw far more views than anything positive.

31st Oct 2020 7:31pm

markb110

Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2638

JLR just don't have a clue when it comes to retail products and customer service.

Buy a toaster, it goes wrong, return for a refund or a replacement. By a car (outright as they did) and the attitude stinks.

Have they never heard of the power of social media especially for a country like the US where the 'local' dealer could be hours away making the buying decision away from Land Rover if the local garage cant fix it.

And just look at the fun and games Powerful UK have had just to do an over the air update....

31st Oct 2020 7:35pm

Digger2000

Member Since: 19 Sep 2020
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 590

Retroanaconda wrote:
I would also be surprised if they hadn’t been offered a loaner while it’s in for repair, however these guys are in the business of making money on YouTube and big negative click bait headlines draw far more views than anything positive.

I agree because from what I am seeing on the new Land Rover fb group anyone that’s posting a problem there are JLR staff watching the comments and dealing with the problem straight away. There was one guy in Canada his car was totally bricked they bought it back off him and he ended up buying another car from the dealer. Think it was the guy that did the trip to the Arctic circle recently. JLR are not stupid they know who these guys are and the amount of followers they have...I think there’s more to this story than what’s been told.

31st Oct 2020 8:24pm

AMBxx

Member Since: 24 Jul 2016
Location: York
Posts: 1032

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

Supacat wrote:

I do wonder when a manufacturer boasts that there are 23,000 lines of code in an electric seat, who within the company actually has an ability to understand the workings of the full vehicle as a whole, rather than just be a sub~component specialist with no clue to any other sub~component.

I 'do software' for a living. You never boast about number of lines of code - writing complex code is easy. It's writing simple code that's difficult. If it took 23,000 lines to do the seat, somebody doesn't understand the problem.

31st Oct 2020 8:44pm

cug

Member Since: 29 Oct 2020
Location: California
Posts: 4

markb110 wrote:
Have they never heard of the power of social media especially for a country like the US where the 'local' dealer could be hours away making the buying decision away from Land Rover if the local garage cant fix it.

It's not just a situation where the local dealer is far away, it's situations where YOU are far away from the dealer that is normally servicing your vehicle. Road trips, overland trips, vacations ... while the actual issue could be a broken cable or connector or sensor or just a line of code, it doesn't matter. The image of low reliability is preserved.

Land Rover is ALREADY discounting 2020 Defenders here in the area. The initial hype and ordering frenzy seems to be over. We are going to do the Land Rover experience day in a Defender 110 next weekend, but given what I've read so far, the Defender has moved to roughly the last spot on my shortlist.

Generally I'm okay with software issues IF they get resolved rather quickly, but TFL not having their car now for three out of not even four weeks is laughable. Something must be seriously wrong with this car. And regarding loaner: it's rather irrelevant if they get a loaner or not, in the big picture it's relevant whether JLR can fix the thing in a reasonable timeframe.

Last edited by cug on 31st Oct 2020 8:57pm. Edited 1 time in total

31st Oct 2020 8:56pm

AndrewS

Member Since: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Hereford
Posts: 3707

2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 SW Rimini Red

I'm smelling bull

, there's more to that. Incompetent dealer? Who knows. Social media is not the be all and end all. I take no notice of it and work things out for my self. If you believe everything you read on trip advisor you'd never leave your house. Oh bad timing 😕 😃😃 130's have feeling's as well you know

31st Oct 2020 8:57pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3395

They get another video out it and a few pennies in their bank account.

I’ve had a few issues with the Velar but all got fixed by going through the proper channels. Never felt the need to shout about it on Faceache, Twitter or YouTube. I’m of the opinion that social media can do more harm than good.

31st Oct 2020 9:27pm

Morepower

Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 630

Retroanaconda wrote:
I would also be surprised if they hadn’t been offered a loaner while it’s in for repair, however these guys are in the business of making money on YouTube and big negative click bait headlines draw far more views than anything positive.

Hahahahaha... They had my 90 for 18 Months.... I had a seat Ibiza for 1 week... It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...

2013 Bowler 110 (Sold)
2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold)

31st Oct 2020 10:03pm

22900013A

Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3149

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green

Digger2000 wrote:
Retroanaconda wrote:
I would also be surprised if they hadn’t been offered a loaner while it’s in for repair, however these guys are in the business of making money on YouTube and big negative click bait headlines draw far more views than anything positive.

I agree because from what I am seeing on the new Land Rover fb group anyone that’s posting a problem there are JLR staff watching the comments and dealing with the problem straight away. There was one guy in Canada his car was totally bricked they bought it back off him and he ended up buying another car from the dealer. Think it was the guy that did the trip to the Arctic circle recently. JLR are not stupid they know who these guys are and the amount of followers they have...I think there’s more to this story than what’s been told.

Considering it would only take the blink of an eye to get lawyers involved I would call it the other way. If there were no truth to it, JLR could have these people in court before you could say "85 ECUs".

I'm sure if I'd have just invented problems when I got my 110, and put it online, that dealer would be very unhappy to say the least. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

1st Nov 2020 7:11am

Co1

Member Since: 19 Aug 2018
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3676

AMBxx wrote:
Supacat wrote:

I do wonder when a manufacturer boasts that there are 23,000 lines of code in an electric seat, who within the company actually has an ability to understand the workings of the full vehicle as a whole, rather than just be a sub~component specialist with no clue to any other sub~component.

I 'do software' for a living. You never boast about number of lines of code - writing complex code is easy. It's writing simple code that's difficult. If it took 23,000 lines to do the seat, somebody doesn't understand the problem.

^^^ Exactly this. 23,000 lines of code in a seat is pretty much incompetence. I’ve seen whole production lines with less code than that!

1st Nov 2020 7:48am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

I'm going to try and dig out the source graphic ~ from memory it was in an illustration, so may be difficult to word search for.

It's interesting that TFL don't seem to engage in replies to queries/comments ~ at least on that video. One reply that caught my eye was this one from someone claiming to work at the factory:

Click image to enlarge

Does such a module exist?

1st Nov 2020 8:23am

chalky

Member Since: 09 May 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 483

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green

Having had a Discovery 5 off the road for Months because Land Rover refused to accept that oil Dilution Was their problem meant I had to rent another vehicle as they refused to replace mine with one that worked or give me a replacement loaner which I could use for Work as according to them it was my fault it only did a few hundred miles between services which I had to pay for !

I’ve resisted even looking at a new one but now the 90’s emerged I’m actively seeking how they are stacking up, and having been in this position with several LR products I’m not sure I can enter into their one sided Ethos of “no one else is reporting these problems” and we don’t recognise as having an Oil change every few weeks as a fault ? I’ve replaced a RRS with a Cayenne, my Mrs has a Tiguan in place of an Evoque and I’m in an Amarok, when it goes in for a service I get an Amarok not a Ford Fiesta. Any one using these for work cannot be happy with their blame culture and failure to accept the customer paid for something which doesn’t work so needs a replacement ?

Mine threw up a Service Now from pick up at the dealers with 9 miles on the clock and That was my fault ? DEFENDER XS CSW 08 TONGA GREEN

1st Nov 2020 8:56am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

Co1 wrote:
AMBxx wrote:
Supacat wrote:

I do wonder when a manufacturer boasts that there are 23,000 lines of code in an electric seat, who within the company actually has an ability to understand the workings of the full vehicle as a whole, rather than just be a sub~component specialist with no clue to any other sub~component.

I 'do software' for a living. You never boast about number of lines of code - writing complex code is easy. It's writing simple code that's difficult. If it took 23,000 lines to do the seat, somebody doesn't understand the problem.

^^^ Exactly this. 23,000 lines of code in a seat is pretty much incompetence. I’ve seen whole production lines with less code than that!

That's pretty much the point I'm making.

How about 200 million lines of code in each car, and although it's just a graphic, that's a car with 14 ECUs not 85!

Click image to enlarge
(Source: JLR Investor Day Presentation - 22nd June 2018)

Last edited by Supacat on 1st Nov 2020 10:13am. Edited 1 time in total

1st Nov 2020 9:36am

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