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| zilch Member Since: 11 Sep 2019 Location: Whitsundays & Sydney Posts: 820  
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Before I ordered the P400 MHEV I got feedback from P400 owners on the rrsport.co.uk site that
Martin runs on the pros and cons, might be worth posting your question there as well yet another pommie bar steward down under MY20 110 P400 SE Defender MY10 3.0 RR Sport |
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23rd Sep 2020 11:47am |
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| The_hog Member Since: 02 Aug 2020 Location: Reykjavik Posts: 36 
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Thank's Zilch
Very helpful. |
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23rd Sep 2020 12:02pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018  
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 Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Back end of this video has quite a bit of detail on the P400e, although I'm not sure if this is exactly the same as the installation in the new Defender? |
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24th Sep 2020 7:28am |
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| Orchard Member Since: 07 May 2015 Location: Usually walking the dog Posts: 258 |
Hi The_Hog. I've been running a P400e RRS for about a year now, and in general #i really like it. I charge it every day and most of my journeys are 30 miles so I rarely put petrol in it. The transition from EV to engine plus electric is very smooth. On longer trips I do feel the fuel disappearing faster than say a 3.0 diesel but overall its fine and never feels underpowered. The engine is a bit revvy at high rpm.
System on the Defender is the same as RRS, except for calibration setting obviously so try a RR or RRS if you want to see how it would drive (Everything else is like a RRS apart from the boot being a bit smaller with a higher floor, and you can't get the active anti-roll bars) If you do lot of long trips then it might not be worth it unless your tax break is amazing, if you do a mixture of short and long trips go for it - its a great feeling driving in EV mode! 2015 90 XS SW Bowler 1998 TD5 CSW |
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24th Sep 2020 2:41pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753 
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Orchard, does your RRS PHEV have the transfer box and low ratios because when I was looking 3 years ago the dealer told me that the car was only AWD but since then I see there are HSE Dynamic and Autobiography Dynamic versions of the RRS PHEV which suggests that they have the full off-road kit and are not all AWD Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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24th Sep 2020 5:00pm |
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| The_hog Member Since: 02 Aug 2020 Location: Reykjavik Posts: 36
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Thank you Orchard for this info.
I have been reading up on the P400e RRS and RR, and it all seems very favorable. AND, the battery in the Defender will have 19,2 Kwh in stead of ca 13 Kwh in RRS and RR. This is a step forward. I have friends that have been rather disappointed with the EV range of Volvo 90 and MB 500e Those had an 11 and 13 Kwh battery. So I´m convinced, and in fact I have a meeting with my dealer at 13:00 tomorrow to finalize my order of a X-Dynamic P400e HSE.  |
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24th Sep 2020 5:04pm |
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| Orchard Member Since: 07 May 2015 Location: Usually walking the dog Posts: 258 |
The_Hog; If you set it to the pure EV mode, it tries to maintain electric drive, unless you exceed certain throttle or speed, I get around 20-25miles range. If you leave it in hybrid then the engine cuts in more frequently but I then get around 75mpg and there is some battery left for much longer for perhaps 60-80 miles - which is ok
 2015 90 XS SW Bowler
1998 TD5 CSW |
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24th Sep 2020 7:23pm |
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| Orchard Member Since: 07 May 2015 Location: Usually walking the dog Posts: 258 |
Tim - The electric motor is between the engine and gearbox, so all is normal regarding having permanent 4WD and HI-Lo transfer case. Lo range in EV is pretty fun. Same for Defender. 2015 90 XS SW Bowler
1998 TD5 CSW |
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24th Sep 2020 7:33pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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Thanks. It wasn’t that that put me off having the RRS PHEV it was the Glasgow North dealership’s salesman who told me as a private buyer I was not the going to gain anything from owning one, it was a business man’s tax dodge car......... real positive selling! So I went out and bought a Mini Countryman PHEV having been wanting to chop in a 2015 RRS HSE Dynamic SDv6.... so far with the Defender I’ve had 3 unscheduled trips to a dealership to fix things that should not have got passed the QC on the production line. The Countryman had a 3 minute unscheduled call at the showroom for a safety recall to have a small sticky warning label stuck on the 13 amp charger. One stop in 2 years and it lasted 3 minutes! Hopefully now my First Edition Defender is now never going to rattle again or leak in the rain after 3 days this week in the repair bay. If Mini can get it right on a £32000 Countryman why can LR not get a £61500 car right? Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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24th Sep 2020 8:22pm |
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| Orchard Member Since: 07 May 2015 Location: Usually walking the dog Posts: 258 |
Unfortunately the dealers are seen by many as the car company, they are not. Sadly my experience is universally very poor with dealers except for our local Listers VW who could not have been better when buying/servicing a used Polo for my daughter!
LR quality has to improve and hopefully the new PIVI system will fix an awful lot of the previous reported issues. Warranty/complaints on the previous infotainment system was more than all other issues combined. 2015 90 XS SW Bowler 1998 TD5 CSW |
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24th Sep 2020 8:40pm |
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2760
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One for anyone out there who knows the p400e system better than I do....
How does the large drivetrain battery interact with the rest of the car’s electrics? Is there still a separate 12v battery to power all the conventional electrical systems on board? Can one be ‘flat’ but not the other? If your EV battery is out is there a separate starter motor which can start the battery or is the electric motor the “starter motor”? When you’re in EV mode, can you have AC/heating etc etc, or does the engine have to kick in somewhat? Cheers, David Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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27th Sep 2020 1:02am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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I don’t know about the LR PHEV’s but I ran a Mini Countryman PHEV and that had a 12v battery for the car’ s non EV systems including starting the Combustion engine in the front. It wasn’t connected to the EV system at all. Even in that car I still got the same “low battery, start engine or radio will switch off in XX minutes” messages that Land Rover owners get.
If I started using heated seats, radio,heating (electric heating as often there was no engine heat to use) then yes if the load was high the petrol engine would start, also if I put my foot down hard on the gas pedal in electric mode and the “Auto” was selected in the drive mode then the ICE would start to give extra shove, same if slippage was detected at the rear wheels then the front engine would come on for grip. There was no way that the HV motor battery would charge the 12v battery. Also if the motive battery was low even in EV only mode the ICE would start and take over the driving and would start charging the HV battery using the petrol engine and regenerative charging from the brake system. Regarding heating, most if not all PHEV’s and EV’s have electrically powered heating so they warm the cabin much more quickly but also the converse also happens the A.C. will run to cool the cabin by electrics. It is very noticeable on a journey just how much power these use as you can see the range drop as you start them. Most PHEVs and EVs though have heating/cooling that can be set in a timer to warm/cool the cabin if the car is plugged into a charger. My Mini did it via the smartphone app or in the dash - set the time you want to depart home, set how warm you want the cabin, set when you want the car to charge (usual at home if no 11kW charger to set to charge in off peak electricity rate times) and then plug into your wall charger or plug in the granny charger on a 13 amp socket charger. My Mini could fully charge its motive HV battery from flat to 100% in 3 hours but it only had a 7.6kW motive battery. On a frosty morning I would set the car to self heat 20 minutes before I wanted to leave and set it to 23c. When I went out to the car not only would it be toasty warm but also ALL the windows and the pano roof would be clear of ice. I had specced the heated front screen on my Mini, it was wasted money, I never ever used it. £310 wasted! The car had heated seats but no heated steering wheel (not even an option). I expect that the LR system is very similar, certainly the BMW PHEV’s same the same system as the Mini and the systems from Kia, Hyundai, Ford and VW are the same too. Originally I wanted the Defender PHEV but continued delays in announcing it and LR’s apparent lack of enthusiasm for anything other than fossil fuelled cars put me off. Now they are announced its disappointing that LR hadn’t increased the electric only range when BMW and some other manufactures can give 45-50 miles real worl electric range on a PHEV now compared to JLR’s weedy 22 miles on a warm day in the real world - don’t think for 1 minute that you will ever get the claimed electric WLTP range on electric only power or that you will get >30mpg of the >100 mpg claimed as that is a calculated figure allowing for a percentage of electric only motoring in the numbers! In petrol only mode you are lugging around >150kgs of deadweight of battery as well as the rest of the car and that really hits fossil fuel consumption. Hence why the govt removed the low emissions vehicles grants (£2500 refunded when I bought my Mini), because they found a lot of PHEVs were never being charged let alone ever being driven in EV mode. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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27th Sep 2020 6:40am |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3403 
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Would you consider the Hybrid Tim?
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27th Sep 2020 9:01am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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I would BUT........................ with a winter range of around 14 miles and summer range around 22 with the present battery it’s a waste of time when other makes are offering so much more range in their PHEVs. Those numbers are what I averaged in the Countrymen PHEV that had a much smaller battery and only 1.5litres of turbo charged 3 cylinder petrol engine but almost the same WLTP figures as the RRS PHEV with a 2litre engine and more than double the battery capacity and an awful lot more weight to haul around. LR should be using the BMW X5 45e PHEV as its target to beat, not a Mini. I’m averaging a tad over 30mpg with the D240 and with my normal daily drive of 32 miles per round trip I can go almost 2 weeks between refuels in it, with the Mini I couldn’t do the round trip on a charge but could recharge it for free at the park and rides around town but I could go 45 days between 35 litre refills with a bit of ICE usage.
If I were commuting daily into a ULEZ zone that needed a daily cost or got a BIK tax benefit I would consider it but the X5 PHEV would still be preferred. I wonder how BMW managed to squeeze the battery pack into an X5 that was never designed to have one yet JLR has a car designed to be electrically assisted from the drawing board but uses an ancient battery pack with little useful range. The only Defender I would consider changing my current car for now would be a D300 X-Dynamic SE unless JLR up the EV range of the PHEV to nearer 50 miles in real world use (then I would only need to put petrol in it annually because I had to to prevent the octane rating of the fuel in the tank falling too low due to lack of use of the petrol engine!) One thing though, I’m still filling the Defender for free on the £2500 low emission vehicle grant that I got for the Mini PHEV, but that will be consumed at the end of November - that refund plus the FIT payments from my solar panel array get paid into a separate bank account I started for fuelling the Mini. FIT from the solar panels averages £160 every 3 months over the year, more in spring, summer and autumn and less in winter. The cost of electricity to recharge the MIni was more than covered by the FIT payments so in the 2 years of owning it the Mini saved me a fortune in fuel costs and with only a single £300 service needed in two years running costs were wallet friendly too. Here’s a screen shot of my Fuelly records for the Mini at the end of its days with me - I appreciate it’s comparing apples to pears but shows the potential savings of a PHEV for a private buyer Click image to enlarge The Defender numbers so far Click image to enlarge Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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27th Sep 2020 12:28pm |
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