 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Jaguar Land Rover bailout talks fall through.... |
 
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816   
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Here is the full text of fridays FT article.
Eric UK business & economy UK bailout talks end for Jaguar Land Rover and Tata Steel Parent does not qualify for Project Birch government aid, leaving carmaker and metals group to rely on private financing Rescue talks between Jaguar Land Rover, Tata Steel and the UK government that may have led to British taxpayers owning stakes in the two businesses have ended, leaving both companies reliant on private financing to weather the economic downturn. Emergency funding talks with JLR, the UK’s biggest carmaker, and Tata Steel — both owned by Indian conglomerate Tata Group — were recently broken off, according to people briefed on the discussions, after the Treasury concluded that Tata Group had deep enough pockets and did not qualify for taxpayer support. The emergency financing scheme, dubbed Project Birch, also imposed strict conditions on any lending, which also made the scheme unpalatable for Tata, one of the people said. JLR in particular baulked at decarbonisation requirements that would have forced the carmaker to accelerate its programme of vehicle electrification and phase out the diesel cars that still make up most of its fleet, according to one person with knowledge of the discussions. The Treasury said: “We do not comment on individual companies.” Both businesses remain in talks with government over other areas of potential support such as tax breaks, which in the case of Tata Steel could extend to state loans. The rescue project was devised as a final lifeline for cash-strapped companies unable to access the UK government’s main coronavirus funding schemes. It involves direct loans from the state that may then be turned into equity stakes in certain circumstances, but only a handful of businesses have reached the final round of talks. The UK subsidiary of Spanish steelmaker Celsa is the only business that has taken a loan under the scheme so far. Tata Steel employs 8,000 people in the UK and runs the country’s largest steelworks in Port Talbot, south Wales. The business, which has failed to break even for a decade, was seeking an injection potentially running into several hundred million pounds. The company has examined replacing its polluting blast furnaces in Port Talbot with cleaner electric-powered furnaces in the hope of securing state funding. JLR, which employs more than 30,000 in the UK and lost close to £1bn between January and July, had also been seeking significant support. It was excluded from the Bank of England’s finance support scheme because of its poor credit rating, making it expensive for the business to borrow money on the open markets. In June, the carmaker’s Chinese subsidiary raised £560m from a group of Chinese banks, which demonstrated to Treasury officials the business still has other lending resources open to it. The Treasury and business department have made clear since the start of the process that the government would only act to rescue individual companies if their failure would disproportionately harm the economy. Rishi Sunak, chancellor, insisted that only companies that had exhausted all other options — including raising capital from existing investors — would be eligible. He has also indicated he does not want to end up taking taxpayer stakes in a large number of troubled companies. Under the government’s loan guarantee schemes, commercial lenders have already provided more than £40bn of debt to companies. You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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15th Aug 2020 4:39pm |
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| LRSpain004 Member Since: 30 Jun 2020 Location: Elche Posts: 68 
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Obviously sales are in a very distressed position and if DHL can layoff permanently 800 people that work on their JLR contract then things are bad. Those 800 are all in supply chain to the Birmingham area. They don't need a bailout, more like a rescue partner.
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15th Aug 2020 5:43pm |
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| Telemarkskier Member Since: 20 Jul 2020 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 126 
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unfortunately not very far sighted Jaguar Land Rover’s technical design director Wolfgang Ziebart dismissed hydrogen powered fuel cell vehicles as a “complete nonsense”.
Ziebart, who was appointed by JLR boss Ralf Speth in 2013 to orchestrate the development of the company’s I-Pace battery electric vehicle, said hydrogen did not make sense as a fuel for electric vehicles due to its inherent poor efficiency. (2016) They are looking again some 4 years later as diesels are now the pariah fuel thanks to VGA and others fiddling emissions results. So much wasted time....just imagine if this was a Jaguar:- Hyperion XP-1 hydrogen-powered supercar revealed American technology start-up promises 1000-mile range and 0-60mph in 2.2sec from fuel cell EV https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-car...r-revealed |
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15th Aug 2020 6:35pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3289 
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Agreed but I suspect JLR decision was more to do with limited R&D funds than anything else. They are a financial basket case with with a business model based on finance deals and smoke & mirrors marketing. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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15th Aug 2020 6:59pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2638  
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As Mitsubishi have announced that they are going to pull out of the European market because they cannot keep up with the emissions / EV technology there is an irony that a 'British' company i suspect wont be allowed to do likewise.
But then as they are really an Indian global company what's to say that they don't just open plants in the US, Asia and expand the factories already in India and China. Meaning they walk away from Europe altogether if they are forced into a corner. Supercat's piece about 'what if the Defender was built in Mexico' may not be as far off the mark as other ideas the Indian management must surely be thinking about to keep the brand alive somewhere |
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15th Aug 2020 9:14pm |
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| Thon Member Since: 22 Nov 2015 Location: Salisbury Plain Posts: 696
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I was lucky enough to ride a hydrogen fuel cell-powered motorbike back in 2005. It featured a briefcase sized fuel cell, designed to be used in a car, home, bike or boat. A really futuristic and well thought-out concept, and as a motorbike it worked OK. However the single biggest barrier for its market adoption / success was considered (by the maker) to be the production and distribution of the hydrogen itself. I don't know if that's been solved yet but maybe Speth's comment was related more to the efficiency inherent in the production of the fuel rather than the efficiency of it when consumed? Found it here: https://canadamotoguide.com/2005/01/12/test-ride-env/ |
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16th Aug 2020 9:51pm |
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| familymad Member Since: 13 Dec 2011 Location: Bucks Posts: 3481  
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https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industr...ore-london
Timely. Wonder what volume they have to do just to keep the lights on... 1951 80" S1 2.0 1995 110 300TDI 1995 90 300TDI |
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17th Aug 2020 9:57am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17386 
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I wonder what the hourly labour rate is at that one!
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17th Aug 2020 10:12am |
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| Telemarkskier Member Since: 20 Jul 2020 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 126
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No doubt the workshop will be booked solid in a few weeks like very other service centre. Yes nice environment for the workforce and wealthy customer base while they exist.
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17th Aug 2020 11:54am |
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| Ecco Member Since: 31 Oct 2015 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 280  
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..thats not really classy compared to one they just now opened here in Kuala Lumpur..i went there this saturday to get oil filter for my truck..its like 4 seasons hotel..food served(free), coffee lounges, etc..who pays all this stuff is beyond me..
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17th Aug 2020 2:11pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3499 
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Sadly Ecco, I hate to disappoint you, but as a customer you are paying for it
I took my Mum and Dad to pick up my Truck from the Dealers after a service. They were running late. We got 'Free' coffee tea and biscuits and lovely little chocolates. I also got an umbrella as I was not awkward and didn't shout the place down when my truck wasn't ready (that's not my style!). My Mother said 'Oh! this is great isn't it? Free Coffee and Biscuits'. She was more used to our local Ford dealership Well Mum, sadly your No.1 Son is paying for all this so drink up and don't leave any, I'm not having you waste my money.
Then I parted with just over £1000 for a service  I now use an indy who doesn't give me a coffee. I just take a flask |
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17th Aug 2020 2:35pm |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1316
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I think they have delusions of grandeur and must believe that by building such wonderful facades, they can fool themselves and a large proportion of their customers into thinking they are something that they are not.
Sooner or later (and I very much suspect sooner) the wheels are going to fall off the whole circus train and another great former British brand will be consigned to history. No doubt a global corporate will pick up the brand names from the salvage sale for a song and either do a good job of re-inventing the brand (think BMW and Mini) or produce some grotesque jelly mould creation, devoid of any link to the past (think SAIC and MG). Some might say JLR have already embarked on the latter with new Defender! |
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17th Aug 2020 2:55pm |
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| LRSpain004 Member Since: 30 Jun 2020 Location: Elche Posts: 68
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: lohr500
I think they have delusions of grandeur and must believe that by building such wonderful facades, they can fool themselves and a large proportion of their customers into thinking they are something that they are not. Sooner or later (and I very much suspect sooner) the wheels are going to fall off the whole circus train and another great former British brand will be consigned to history. No doubt a global corporate will pick up the brand names from the salvage sale for a song and either do a good job of re-inventing the brand (think BMW and Mini) or produce some grotesque jelly mould creation, devoid of any link to the past (think SAIC and MG). Some might say JLR have already embarked on the latter with new Defender! I agree completely  |
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17th Aug 2020 3:14pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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Nobody picked up up on the fact Speth has been paid £4.4 million on the last year, and pocketed £18m over the last 4 years. Really hard to justify when you look at JLR's performance over that period and where he's left the company as he departs.
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18th Aug 2020 3:04pm |
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