 | Home > INEOS Grenadier > Episode 5 - Engine and Transmission |
 
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4646  
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I have never driven a car with an automatic gearbox so I am familiar with the manual type. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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13th Aug 2020 10:18pm |
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| familymad Member Since: 13 Dec 2011 Location: Bucks Posts: 3481  
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100 prototypes on the road or in build. That’s not some back street outfit attempt. Really getting excited by this 1951 80" S1 2.0
1995 110 300TDI 1995 90 300TDI |
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14th Aug 2020 4:05pm |
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| adolfy Member Since: 01 Dec 2016 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 58  
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After watching episode 5, I definitely would not buy one, the no manual gearbox option was the last straw. It's DNA feels nearer to the Defender than the pretender will ever be but it will never be a Land Rover. Land Rover 1950 series 1
Land Rover LWB 1967 series 2A Land Rover SWB 1980 series 3 Land Rover 110 Defender 2013 |
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14th Aug 2020 8:30pm |
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| LandymanStefan Member Since: 30 Aug 2017 Location: Surrey Posts: 881  
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It was never going to be a 300tdi tractor engine with a manul box in this day and age
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14th Aug 2020 9:21pm |
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| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 727 
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My suspicion is that there isn't a driveline which could take the punishment a manual box with the 3 litre diesel/petrol turbocharged engines could provide - the ZF will smooth it out considerably.
I have been fortunately enough to have had fairly extensive use of a Porsche Cayenne with what I assume is a very similar 8 speed ZF gearbox. Its super smooth, easy to drive, efficient and much less tiring in traffic. Yet, given the choice I'd choose a manual. I find a manual more engaging to drive, it gives me pleasure getting a super smooth gearchange in, takes a little bit of the boredom out of a drive. If I was driving for a living - the auto would be very appealing. But I'm not - my drives are for pleasure, else I might as well just get home supermarket delivery in and get rid of the car altogether in 2020. 2005 Td5 90 XS 1989 V8 110 CSW |
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14th Aug 2020 9:42pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8018 
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There are plenty of driveline that will take the torque and bhp out there, force9s, spydertrax, dana, Toyota with Longfield to name a few.
Auto is def the way to go. Easier for anyone to use with manual gear select. Better on and off road. Most that harp on about autos being crap are thinking of old 3 speed lumps from the 80s or struggle with the changing, like left foot braking. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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14th Aug 2020 9:55pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4646
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I remember in brochures for the Range Rover and fuel consumption figures were given, the manual version always gave much better fuel consumption than the automatic. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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14th Aug 2020 11:25pm |
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| diesel_jim Member Since: 13 Oct 2008 Location: hiding Posts: 6092 
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And as he said, you can select "manual mode" albiet without a clutch pedal, to keep it in whatever gear you want.
best of both worlds I say. |
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15th Aug 2020 5:40am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8018
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From early auto years I dare say? Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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15th Aug 2020 8:02am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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Most modern cars with the choice of auto or manual shift the auto is more economical, in Evoque 2.2 diesel Auto the economy was notably better, the acceleration was a bit better in the auto too. City driving is also so much nicer in an auto than having to flex the left leg so much.
Another thing, if you put many modern auto-boxes into Sport mode they can manually shift and they will change gears in hundredths of a second without crunching the gears and they can shift up or down gears missing out intermediates if necessary just by tapping the lever/ shifter paddle several time rapidly. I do think JLR has missed a trick in the new Defender by not fitting paddle shifters, so much better to use off-road than having to take a hand of the steering wheel to tap the gear stick to perform a manual sequential up or down shift Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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15th Aug 2020 8:06am |
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| adolfy Member Since: 01 Dec 2016 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 58
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Most modern cars with the choice of auto or manual shift the auto is more economical, in Evoque 2.2 diesel Auto the economy was notably better, the acceleration was a bit better in the auto too. City driving is also so much nicer in an auto than having to flex the left leg so much.
Another thing, if you put many modern auto-boxes into Sport mode they can manually shift and they will change gears in hundredths of a second without crunching the gears and they can shift up or down gears missing out intermediates if necessary just by tapping the lever/ shifter paddle several time rapidly. I do think JLR has missed a trick in the new Defender by not fitting paddle shifters, so much better to use off-road than having to take a hand of the steering wheel to tap the gear stick to perform a manual sequential up or down shift My goodness how lazy have we become that we have to rest our left leg and that driving off road now requires us not to take our hands off of the steering wheel. I want simple, I want to be able to fix the vehicle myself with as little use of a code reader or a PC as possible, I want to drive the vehicle, not be driven. I want a modern Defender, not the over technical, over complicated, over sized, over priced gimmick such as the Pretender. I don't need sat nav, I have a map, I don't need an auto box, I don't need or want, to be connected to the internet or a phone 24/7. Sorry, the Ineos is no better than the Pretender but much better looking. Land Rover 1950 series 1 Land Rover LWB 1967 series 2A Land Rover SWB 1980 series 3 Land Rover 110 Defender 2013 |
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15th Aug 2020 8:38am |
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| Smilesapart Member Since: 28 Sep 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 735
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It seems the same people that are moaning about the new Defender not being a real Defender because it’s too modern, too refined etc are now the same people moaning about this for similar reasons like it’s an Automatic and it’s going to be too expensive.
All vehicles with significant capabilities are too expensive- that’s just how it is now. Have you not seen the prices of Crew Cabs from VW etc? As for manual vs Auto, almost everything is an auto now too. They are superb gearboxes with usually the option to use them manually and they are usually both quicker and more economical that their manual versions. Is the real problem more that those of you unhappy with everything, perhaps need to stop living in the past and get with the real modern world we are now living in? No modern vehicle manufacturer with any sense is going to produce a new vehicle (that must be profitable and sell in descent numbers) by launching something remotely similar to a vehicle (The old Defender) that for the last 15 years has been losing sales and derided my the motoring press as being woefully old fashioned and hideous to drive on the road! That is just not going to happen. Sold the Puma Defender and bought a brand new Pangea Green 2020 Defender D240 S with a few factory extras! |
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15th Aug 2020 10:10am |
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| diduan Member Since: 13 Oct 2016 Location: Central Balkan Posts: 260 
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For me it is all about reliability and here I think manual gearboxes have an advantage. Even broken manual usually has at least one gear to bring you home.
You can't beat simple mechanics if dimensioned properly. Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt |
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15th Aug 2020 12:49pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4646
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Perhaps I do live in the past and I am fairly happy there. I enjoy driving and really enjoy the Puma driving experience. I have a series 111, I accept it for what it is and enjoy driving it. Regarding the new Defender, it just does not appeal to me. Likewise Range Rovers don't appeal to me either. Regarding INEOS and the Grenadier, I liked the concept per se but it would not be on my shopping list either, if I could afford one. Modern car manufacturers may be moving in a direction to produce products that I do not like so I just won't buy any of them. There are undoubtedly many people who will buy them and be very pleased with their purchase. Me, I doubt if I will ever buy another car so I will be happy enough to go on as I am. People buy cars that appeal to them and each to their own. My 1992 200 tdi has it's original engine and gearbox. I drive it as it was designed to be driven and I enjoy it. Some may regard it as a glorified tractor but tractors are very useful things. I drive for a living so I understand that the gearbox has to be treated with sympathy and respect and I drive accordingly. If lots of electronics and an automatic gearbox prompts someone to buy a particular car well that is their choice and they will use their hard earned money to buy it and hopefully it will fulfil their expectations. It is just not the way I want to spend my money sorry OUR money (the wife was just looking over my shoulder). Maybe if JLR had replaced the Defender with something more "traditional", there is no guarantee that I would like that. They could have just made something that did not interest me. I tune in to this section to hear peoples views on their new purchase and there is a curiousity to find our how JLR are rectifying problems. I was out for a drive in the Puma today and I turned back before I drove off the edge of the world. I know it is flat, apart from all of the hills around here and I have a suspicion that the edge is just over the hills that I see from my front window. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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15th Aug 2020 11:14pm |
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