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AMBxx

Member Since: 24 Jul 2016
Location: York
Posts: 1043

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

It's not just touch screens that are causing problems in modern cars - the layout of controls has become more complex and less easy to use.
My wife had a Volvo C30 followed by a Mercedes A Class. I struggled with the fog lights on both as the buttons were hidden behind the steering wheel and impossible to see without moving my head.

My pet hate is automatic headlights. They don't always work in fog or heavy rain, and people don't realise.

6th Aug 2020 7:10am

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

I think one of the issues with automatic on headlights/ wipers is that people are told that their car has them but they take it literally not realising you do actually have to turn the switch to Auto.

The wiper sensor in my New Defenderis so sensitive that I now leave the switch on manual rather than Auto, one dead fly on the sensor and the wipers take off at double speed on a dry screen, I now only rotate the control to auto once I need the wipers on intermittent. My Mini’s control system was far far better. The MInis system was also great on frosty mornings because after you set Auto On wipers there was a second tiny press/press on button on the wiper stalk that defaulted the wipers to off when you switched of the engine, on frosty mornings if you had forgotten to set the auto on to off in the LR cars and started the engine the wiper blades automatically set off trying to clear a frozen screen until the heater has done its work, in the Mini even in the auto position the wipers wouldn’t run until you pressed that little on button even with the stalk in the auto on position. Sounds complicated, worked simply and effectively. It helped that when that car was plugged into the mains or a charger and you set the timer then you had a 23c toasty warm car with totally frost/ snow free windows and sunroof when you went out to the car.

As for hidden controls, in the New Defender I had a test drive in I couldn’t find the parking brake control and when I did eventually find it hidden under the dash below the driver’s right knee I couldn’t figure out how to make it work! In previous cars including in e Land Rover products I’ve always had to push the switch to engage the EPB in Defender it is back to front! Also I had no warning that the EPB operates on two levels - car stops, press gently on the foot brake and the brake ap;ies in “Hold” mode without activating auto stop/start, press the foot brake harder or right to the bottom of its travel and the hand brake icon comes on in the dash and auto stop/start engages. It was so much easier with a big pull for on lever on the centre tunnel like my old 90 has! Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

6th Aug 2020 7:40am

ARC99

Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1831

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Cairns Blue

Automatic light should be banned along with DRL'S.

The number of times I have come across cars being driven without rear lights in the darker nights and mornings I have lost count. If a driver can't remember to turn on the vehicle lights how do they manage to find there way, oh I forgot Sat Nav's.

A couple of friends who are in the local Force have told me they once issued 150 tickets in a day to drivers who had no rear lights displayed, all but a few blamed the car for not switching on the rear lights, some even went as far as to elect to go to court to try and get the manufacturers to take the blame.

If the E.U. had a brain between them they should have legislated for the rear light as well as the front come on automatically. Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to

us off.

Richard

6th Aug 2020 9:46am

diduan

Member Since: 13 Oct 2016
Location: Central Balkan
Posts: 260

discomog wrote:
...Give me the two plus four dials any day, large speedo and tacho and four 50mm gauges for fuel, oil pressure, engine temperature and voltmeter or ammeter.

Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt

6th Aug 2020 9:51am

Bian Considine

Member Since: 25 Jul 2020
Location: Margate
Posts: 53

discomog wrote:
Give me the two plus four dials any day, large speedo and tacho and four 50mm gauges for fuel, oil pressure, engine temperature and voltmeter or ammeter.

Me too - with real dials & needles/pointers - non of this virtual screen rubbish either.

6th Aug 2020 10:28am

Chris86

Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: South Yorks
Posts: 795

I find a lot of the touch screen stuff really irritating to use and I agree they definitely have the potential to divert attention from the road.

One of the worst offenders is the current Range Rover- I had one for a chauffeuring job last year and was appalled by the climate control system.

Its a trend in cars that I really hope dies a death, touch screens fix a problem that never existed for the sake of making the dash look cleaner.

I was driving a D4 the other day and was struck by whilst there are quite a lot of controls that it was all laid out well and pretty intuitive to use, with touchscreen stuff limited to the Nav, radio and a few other less essential functions.

Chris

7th Aug 2020 10:13am

Rashers

Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3566

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

Daylight running lights are a great idea, and they work really well - when hardly anyone had them. Now all new cars are fitted with DRL's, seeing a vehicle with lights on during the day becomes the norm, and the brain will stop recognising the warning. Everyone noticed Volvo's in the 70's and 80's as these cars had a unique feature. Now, it's more likely to recognise the car without DRL's!

There are a lot of things in life which are done for 'safety' but in reality, by getting everyone to toe the line and do similar, it waters down the effect.

Why does anyone these days who doesn't sit at a desk for work have to wear a hi-viz jacket?

Why do people who wear hi-viz jackets seem to think that they are invincible when crossing roads and walking up beside vehicles? I have news for you lemmings, the rest of the drivers are too busy trying to understand their touch screen controls to see you. The hi-viz will give you no extra mechanical protection when you get clobbered by a vehicle

7th Aug 2020 11:49am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17603

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Chris86 wrote:
... Its a trend in cars that I really hope dies a death, touch screens fix a problem that never existed for the sake of making the dash look cleaner.
...

Sadly it is unlikely to die a death (unless legislated into extinction) since it is and extremely cheap and readily configurable way to provide a user interface, much cheaper than actual switches and knobs. A single touch screen can be configured for many different applications and specifications effectively at zero cost. It isn't really true to say that it is a solution to a non-existent problem, it is simply cost-cutting as vehicles become more complex.

I'm afraid that it is an abomination that is here to stay.

7th Aug 2020 12:05pm

seriesonenut

Member Since: 19 Nov 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 1232

This reminds me of 1976 and my dad arrived home with a new ford escort popular mk 2. How we marveled at the colour backing to the heater control glowing away..... simple times, happy days..... 1984 One-Ten CSW
2010 XS USW (sold)
1957 Series One 88 diesel
1958 Series One 88 4x2

7th Aug 2020 8:09pm

Grenadier

Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5878

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey

markb110 wrote:
Sounds like that they are trying to soften up the public for self driving cars that no one is asking for and to protect the German car industry from Tesla's success.

It would be safer and cheaper in the long run to insist on an intelligence test as part of the driving test to reduce numbers on the roads....

Tesla's success is relative, (certainly it's Market Cap is based a lot around Musk's personality and an adoring fan base rather than unit sales), and they are being quickly caught up if not passed (Porsche Taycan) in terms of development. And at only 500k units per year, they're unlikely to worry the giants of Germany who annually make 15m cars between them and now have a variety of EVs across their fleet. If there's any kind of back story it's the EU's (and key countries with thin the EU) desire to keep hitting the giants of American business, such as Google, Apple, Amazon etc. But I don't think that's the case here, just a court saying the tech is dangerous and rightly so IMHO. Media screens are just another unnecessary distraction for drivers which, alongside 'driver aids', is making drivers worse/more complacent, year on year. Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

8th Aug 2020 5:15am

100inch

Member Since: 15 May 2012
Location: Brunswick
Posts: 411

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Santorini Black

Chris86 wrote:
I find a lot of the touch screen stuff really irritating to use and I agree they definitely have the potential to divert attention from the road.

One of the worst offenders is the current Range Rover- I had one for a chauffeuring job last year and was appalled by the climate control system.

Chris

I own a 2018 model with touchscreen and can't understand the problem. Put it on auto, turn left or right for temperature, press down for the climate seats. Couldn't be easier and no need to take your eyes on the road.

8th Aug 2020 6:08am

Bian Considine

Member Since: 25 Jul 2020
Location: Margate
Posts: 53

[quote="Grenadier"]

markb110 wrote:
Musk's personality and an adoring fan base

A bit like the Steve Jobbs/Crapple way.

8th Aug 2020 9:12am

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