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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4702  
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Maybe they have heard of a proposed "morality" law and they want to stop people having "nudey nookie" in the back.  1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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24th Jun 2020 10:20am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018  
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Is that an Irish thing? A Normal People backlash?
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24th Jun 2020 10:29am |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4702
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Some of use age wise would need a hoist on the options list to consider using one as "love mobile".. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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24th Jun 2020 10:33am |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4702
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"New Defender Rear Love Edition".. That "rear love" brought tears to my eyes
 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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24th Jun 2020 11:05am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17441 
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You require a digital tacho to be fitted (but not necessarily used) in any vehicle used for commercial purposes with a gross vehicle weight or running with a gross train weight in excess of 3.5 tonnes. There are some exemptions, but they are quite few and restrictive. Salient points to note. 1. It doesn't matter whether it is a commercial vehicle or not, it is the purpose for which it is used that matters. 2. The 3.5 tonne gross weight limit applies to both/either the GVW or the GTW. Any Defender of any description towing a trailer of moderate size is likely to exceed 3.5 tonnes gross train weight and therefore technically requires a digital tacho (if manufactured post 01/05/2006) or a tacho (digital or analogue if manufactured before 01/05/2006) to be fitted if the vehicle is being used commercially. Even if you don't actually have to use the tacho under certain circumstances the law requires it to be present. There have been some further relaxations, but the catch is that in many cases they mean you don't have to USE a tacho, not that you don't have to HAVE a tacho fitted. 3. A lot of people don't realise that the definition of "used commercially" is very far reaching. It doesn't matter if you are being paid or not, or if the vehicle is owned privately or not, it is the purpose for which the items being carried are being carried. For example, if you happen to have a friend with a business, and he needs a trailer load of scrap pallets which he's accumulated as a result of that business taken for disposal, and you offer to do this with your vehicle out of the goodness of your heart, that is commercial use and you need a tacho. Landrover has never offered a tachograph as an option despite a clear legal requirement for one to be fitted to almost any Landrover vehicle used commercially, and in 2006 actually wrote to all dealer principals advising them that if they became aware that a customer was intending to use a Landrover product commercially they (the customer) should be made aware that at that time there were no legal tacho solutions available, even aftermarket. Since 2006, Siemens VDO has produced a legal aftermarket digital tacho kit for the TDCi Defender (I am not aware of any legal kits for earlier models). Copy of letter here: https://www.defender2.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10785/tacho.pdf Tachos are an extremely complex area and there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people breaking the law on a daily basis as a result of ignorance. VOSA has fairly comprehensive advice on its website and I recommend that you have a read if you ever use your vehicle in any way connected with anyone's business activities. It is a minefield! Edited to add note - this view is based on research I did a few years ago and it is possible that the situation has changed since. Please do your own research if you're going to argue with a VOSA inspector! My view may be wrong or out of date! |
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24th Jun 2020 1:41pm |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3404 
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I might opt for the canvas roof, somewhere for the feet to stick out. |
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24th Jun 2020 2:03pm |
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| MikeJ Member Since: 04 May 2014 Location: Dorchester, Dorset Posts: 41 
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The rules changed in 2015. From the link I posted: Soon some vehicles will no longer need to be fitted with tachograph recording equipment and their drivers will not have to comply with EC drivers’ hours rules, but with GB drivers’ hours rules instead. and The new regulation increases the journey distance for exemptions from 50km to 100km from the operator’s base. This will apply to: - Vehicles or vehicle trailer combinations with a maximum weight of 7,500kg which are:- Used to carry materials, equipment or machinery for the driver’s use in the course of their work, and when driving the vehicle is not the driver’s main activity.- Used to carry goods and are propelled by natural or liquefied gas or electricity. - Vehicles used to carry live animals from farms to local markets or from markets to local farms or slaughterhouses. The government guidance on exemptions from EU tachograph rules is here: https://www.gov.uk/tachographs and specifically says You don’t have to use a tachograph if your vehicle isn’t covered by EU rules or if it’s exempt from EU rules on drivers’ hours. The exemptions are detailed here: https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/exemptions-from-eu-law There are quite a few in addition to the ones pertinent to this. Cheers Mike |
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24th Jun 2020 2:34pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17441
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Thanks, I'll have a read when I get a moment. Do bear in mind the "you do not need to use a tacho..." does not necessarily mean you don't need to have one fitted. This was one of the old pitfalls, I hope it's changed but don't count on it.
Some years ago I used to tow a display trailer to county shows etc for an animal-related organisation (but not a registered charity). On the stand we used to sell t-shirts and so on to raise funds. Mobile displays and display trailers are (were at any rate) exempt from the driver's hours and tacho regs, but if the merchandise was carried in the trailer or tow vehicle the exemption was lost. We always took a second vehicle with no trailer with the merchandise. |
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24th Jun 2020 2:39pm |
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| MikeJ Member Since: 04 May 2014 Location: Dorchester, Dorset Posts: 41
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Understood. I hope that's changed too. I wonder what the offence would be for a tacho not present, even if not required at the time you're stopped. Unless it's checked in the MoT - and it isn't for LGV's - then I don't see how that's at all enforceable. I think under the new regs, your show transport would be fine as long as it's within 60 miles of home. Cheers Mike |
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25th Jun 2020 8:26am |
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| NinetyTD4 Member Since: 22 Apr 2011 Location: North Posts: 397  
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Man, you can't do that to me! Made me laugh and the missis came in to ask why. Showed her the thread and she said: 'You know, the New Defender is a women car - but only short auto stick and small touch are not for me, I would miss the DP gear and reduction sticks'. Took me a shock second to realize ...  .
Back to serious - Does anybody have a good summary for what to expect when towing under current regulations? I got a bit confused by the changing one ton and electronic tach rules. Never forget: cars have owner, Landrover have field service personnel. |
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25th Jun 2020 8:57am |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4702
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I would miss the DP gear and reduction sticks'. Took me a shock second to realize ... Smile.
Nice mature relationship...  1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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25th Jun 2020 9:46am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17441
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What are you towing, what are you towing with, and what is the purpose of the journey? |
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25th Jun 2020 10:06am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8050  
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would fold flat no infringe on upward wheel travel? just looking at pics, wheel arches are on edges of seats. Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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25th Jun 2020 10:39am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Gives a different spin on having a central jump seat... |
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25th Jun 2020 11:39am |
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