 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Dual mass fly wheel or not? |
 
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| Green Godess Member Since: 22 May 2020 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 2   
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Having searched elsewhere and still not come up with a definitive answer, how do I know if my 2008, 2.4, 90, has the dual mass fly wheel, or solid fly wheel? Husband is tearing his hair out (not good as not much left!). Thanks
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25th May 2020 2:08pm |
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| Green Godess Member Since: 22 May 2020 Location: Isle of Wight Posts: 2
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Many thanks, husband won't go totally bald now!!
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25th May 2020 2:32pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20446
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Pretty sure as mentioned it's not a dual mass flywheel, and solid as I was told this with mine and mine I said a similar age.
Out on interest what does a DMF do that is different to solid? No Guts, No Glory. 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 Last edited by custom90 on 25th May 2020 5:28pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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25th May 2020 3:18pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443 
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All TDCi Defenders have solid flywheels. All TD5 Defenders have dual mass flywheels. Obviously if they've been modified you may find exceptions.
Steve, what they chiefly do is fail and cause large bills. Fearing a loss of income with the introduction of the TDCi, with its inherently more-durable sold flywheel, Landrover cleverly designed a driven plate that failed in an incredibly short time, and the frequency of replacement made up for the cheaper parts. The serious answer is that a traditional solid flywheel uses a sprung driven plate to prevent torsional vibrations from the engine affecting the driveline and to produce a smoother ride. This worked fine on high speed petrol engines, and also low revving traditional diesels. The introduction of the modern high-speed, high-revving, high-compression diesel found in all modern small vehicles produces far higher levels of torsional vibration, and far higher torque outputs than the petrol equivalents, and this requires bigger springs and more complex driveline damping. Since there is a limit to the size of springs that can be fitted to a driven plate, the springs were moved into the flywheel, and the abomination that is the DMF was created! This is in effect two flywheels mounted coaxially with the two halves having a limited spring-damped radial movement. What can possibly be wrong with that, a brilliant idea (I hear you cry)? The problem is that all the time the engine is running the two halves of the flywheel are chattering and eventually they wear to the extent that they wobble about. This causes clutch judder. With a single mass flywheel when this happens you replace the driven plate and cover. With a DMF you have to replace the flywheel as well, which is usually about 3 to 5 times the cost of the other parts. My experience with my TD5 Disco is that the DMF lasts about 65k miles before the judder becomes intolerable. A typical driven plate should easily last twice this. My personal dislike of DMFs is simply that they are expensive, non-adjustable, and wear out quickly. Sadly LR went on to invent a single mass sprung clutch set-up that was EVEN LESS satisfactory, something most engineers thought impossible! The problem with the TDCi set-up is that it was and remains difficult to fit the necessary springing in the driven plate to accommodate the massive torque of the engine and yet last the expected life of the driven plate, which should be at least 100k miles. As many folk on this forum know, the early driven plates were simply embarrassing, and lasted only a very short time. They have improved, but are still not exactly great. I've not yet heard of anyone who has actually had to replace a TDCi clutch because the linings have worn out rather than the springs are rattling. |
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25th May 2020 3:47pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20446
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Very well explained Blackwolf, it does make sense - thank you.
When I last had the clutch replaced on mine I was told the flywheel was in good condition as was the intermediate shaft. (And greased.) I was finding when I brought the clutch up, there was no drive for a good few seconds with huge amounts of clutch slip. Luckily I was only about 2 or three miles from home and made it back driving with a lot of care. Chances are that it was a factory fit Genuine clutch, it is now on the second 2014 generation Genuine clutch. This clutch has done about 33k now, the first did around 44k which is ridiculously low. The second clutch that is fitted now seems much better. When it was in I did ask if I could take a look at the original clutch as you do. I think they thought I was checking up on them.  
It was well worn from what I could see at the time. No Guts, No Glory. 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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25th May 2020 5:47pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443
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They are improving. My fifth (I think) clutch has done 90k miles and doesn't rattle, but doesn't have much springiness left either. It will be changed as soon as I have time. The one before lasted 60k, but the three before that only managed 90k in total. The factory clutch was changed at 10k.
The next one will be a Transit 4x4 clutch. |
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25th May 2020 8:34pm |
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