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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443   
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Yes, somewhat over-engineered, and interestingly as fast backwards as forwards (there was a separate F/R gearbox, so you had the same number of reverse gears as forward gears).
At the time these were being assessed, LR was contracted to supply a number (49, IIRC) of Land-Rovers with the same engine, the Rolls B40 2.8L. These were 80" vehicles taken off the line and reworked, ending up with an 81" wheelbase and a bonnet with a hole in it to clear the radiator cap. At the time the engine from RR cost more than the complete 80" vehicle of the line. They were generally not considered a success, but of course are absurdly collectable now. I have an 80" chassis in poor condition with a chassis number which puts it right among the batch converted vehicles, although mine was only ever an 80". |
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17th May 2020 4:42pm |
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| discomog Member Since: 09 May 2015 Location: Notts/Lincs Border Posts: 2529 
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Even the Austin Gypsy is becoming collectable, which I guess was more of a competitor to the Land Rover than the Champ (for civvy street anyway). The Gypsy always reminded me of the Toyota FJ.
The one thing I liked about the Champ was the fact that the electrics were waterproofed from the factory. Defender 90XS SW Mini Countryman Cooper S Morgan Plus 8 |
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17th May 2020 5:27pm |
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| defender9 Member Since: 12 Mar 2016 Location: Fylde Coast Posts: 1629 
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It was an old scrap Champ which oddly enough started my long association with Land Rover. When I was a nipper we used to play on an abandoned champ near to where we lived. Obviously at that time I had no idea what it was other than a geeen army “jeep”. From then on I always wanted a green “jeep” and years later bought a Series One LR
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17th May 2020 5:29pm |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1317 
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They used to have an 81" B40 powered Series 1 in the Museum of Army Transport at Beverley, North Yorkshire.
It was used for ceremonial duties with a VIP platform on the back. It's now in the Dunsfold Collection. |
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17th May 2020 7:24pm |
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| seriesonenut Member Since: 19 Nov 2014 Location: Essex Posts: 1211
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This reminded me of the 2012 Land Rover Series One Rally in Cambridgeshire. A Rolls Royce powered 81'' turned up, we did some lanes near to Ely as I recall. Lovely thing I think this is the one. You can just see the rad cap.
 Click image to enlargerr80 by Richard Holmes, on Flickr 2010 XS USW 1957 Series One 88 diesel 1958 Series One 88 4x2 |
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17th May 2020 7:56pm |
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| Slideywindows Member Since: 09 Sep 2016 Location: North Essex Posts: 1283 
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Thirty three were converted.
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17th May 2020 8:09pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443
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^^ Thank you, I couldn't remember the number and was away from my references.
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17th May 2020 8:14pm |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1317
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Here's a blast from the past. Me and my mate with his Champ crossing Mastiles Lane (Kilnsey to Malham Tarn) in the days when it was still open.
Click image to enlarge |
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17th May 2020 8:16pm |
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| discomog Member Since: 09 May 2015 Location: Notts/Lincs Border Posts: 2529
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Bet you couldn't move for lock down picnickers at Malham Cove this weekend. Defender 90XS SW
Mini Countryman Cooper S Morgan Plus 8 |
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17th May 2020 8:46pm |
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| Pilgrimmick Member Since: 16 Nov 2015 Location: Highlands Posts: 582
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The champ was part of a CT (Combat Truck) family of vehicles. These were designed to have interchangeable parts to make supply in the field easier, hence the RR engine.
I believe that the piston from the 4 cyl engine was the same as the larger 6 cyl engine, various bearings etc were also common. You can imagine that this made the smaller vehicles very over-engineered and heavy. It was a Great War time plan that was scuppered by peacetime budgets. The Land Rover however from inception was a utility vehicle, only later did it make it into combat roles. (Not much later, but that was not the initial plan) 80" 1948 Lightweight V8 Bowler Tomcat 130 Station wagon 90 300tdi (Santana PS10 pick up) Range Rover L322 (Ful fat) |
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18th May 2020 7:29am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443
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Most engine parts were interchangeable between the B40 (4-cylinder), B60 (6-cylinder) and B80 (8-cylinder) versions.
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18th May 2020 7:45am |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1317
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If I remember correctly from the one my mate had, I think all 4 wheel stations/suspension assemblies on the Champ were the same to standardise on spare parts holding as well. And to blackwolf and Pilgrimick,s comments, there were lots of interchangeable parts. The speedo housing and starter box control module were identical to the ones he had in his B60 powered Ferret armoured car.
It was way over engineered and as a result quite a heavy thing when off roading. They also suffered well known problems in the rear transaxle with crown wheel and pinion failure. |
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18th May 2020 9:49am |
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| JR Member Since: 07 Dec 2012 Location: Auchtermuchty Posts: 532  
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The B60 was also fitted to the Humber 'Pig' Armoured Car that saw a lot of use in N Ireland during the Troubles! There was also a a medium sized Humber truck that used the engine, the local garage ran one for years as their breakdown truck until they were no longer allowed to drive breakdown motors on Trade Plates! A mate and I bought it for £100, mechanically perfect, but the body was complete toast! It drove beautifully and the engine was so incredibly smoth!
The B80 was used in the Saladin Armoured Car, and in an Airport Tractor for the RAF. I think the Saracon also used the engine, but I'm not certain! As for the Champ, I've had a couple over the years, the off road ride on these was completely unparalled with its fully independent and adjustable, torsion bar suspension! The downsides were very poor steering lock and suspension travel due to the complexity of the double wishbone suspension. It had rack & pinion steering, which is still not that common on 4x4's! Each end's suspension and drive unit was removeable as a single subframe unit, allowing reasonable repairs close to the Front Line, these subframes were then sent back to the larger MU's for full refurb work. The rear drive unit problem was mainly caused by the failure of a phosphur bronze bush on the imput shaft to the drive unit! If the driver hadn't noticed the problem soon enough, the whole casing would break off at the bush, rendering the unit scrap! I believe the bill to the War Office/MOD was £1.5million for that problem alone, and was one heck of a lot of money in the 50's & 60's!! I remember reading in a Motorsport magazine in the early 80's that someone campaigned a Champ in Trials in England-shire for some years; this guy had engineered a successful 'fix' for the rear bush problem by managing to machine just enough room on the already thin casing, to fit a very fine needle roller bearing in place of the troublesome bush! The materials quality of these vehicles was incredible! You'd go to start to strip it and every bolt would undo as though it had only been fitted last year, not (when I played with mine) 35-40 years before! In order to try and keep the weight down a bit, diff, bellhousings and transmission castings were made from Magnesium! Another wee quirk, it was fitted with 2 different sets of wheel studs and nuts! The rhs wheels used conventional threaded studs/nuts whereas the lhs used left hand threaded ones, the idea being that as the wheels rotated to drive the motor forward, the rotation would tend to maintain their torque, whereas a conventional wheelnut on the lhs, if not at full torque, could tend to unthread itself; not exactly a good thing on the battlefield!! Production ran to around 15,000 vehicles between 1950-56, and I believe they were used in Suez and Korea, my 2nd one was certainly ex Royal Artillery in Hong Kong! Less well known is that Austin produced a civvie version in small numbers! It was sold with a regular Austin 3Litre engine that was not waterproofed! And, whilst military versions were 24volt, the civvie ones were 12volt systems! I would imagine an original one of these would be the proverbial 'Holy Grail' of Champs, I'm not sure if any them survived! As it happens, I found some of my Champ literature a few months ago, and yesterday I came across a Parts Catalog from Champ Spares UK that had been sent to me in the late 80's! Sorry for the length of this, I get a bit carried away when I start yacking about this stuff!! |
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18th May 2020 4:12pm |
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| defender9 Member Since: 12 Mar 2016 Location: Fylde Coast Posts: 1629
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Very interesting JR, lots of info that I was not aware of.
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18th May 2020 4:56pm |
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