 | Home > Expedition & Overland > Webasto Thermo Top Shower |
 
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| Badger110 Member Since: 06 Feb 2018 Location: South hams Posts: 1039   
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Purchased one anyway as I might double up for the central heating
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23rd Apr 2020 7:33pm |
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| pj2106 Member Since: 20 Dec 2012 Location: Huntingdon AKA The Shire Posts: 1500 
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Just buy a d3/4 night heater all built in ready to go👍 2008 110 2.4 XS Utility (Hagrid)
2002 90 TD5 Hardtop (Sully) Sold 1998 300TDi D1 (Billy) Sold |
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23rd Apr 2020 7:41pm |
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 680
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I've not done it... yet, but i am planning to do the same thing, so these are my own thoughts on what I plan to do to share with yours
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First comment is having run my thermotop in a large bin, it's not capable of doing cold in hot out in one pass. That means that if you attach a heat exchanger to it to heat fresh clean water, by just doing it in a single very short circuit, it won't be very hot by the time you get to the shower head. Only a few degrees of rise every time it passes through the heater, it's not like a 9Kw electric shower you might have at home. So what you need to add is thermal mass - i.e. a store of heat that the shower can take energy from and the heater can build up energy in over time. That's conveniently located at the front of the car and called the engine. I'm being trivial but you know what i mean. In my thoughts, if you want to have a reasonable hot shower, the heater needs to be connected to the block, and you need to use the block and coolant as a thermal heat mass to give you heat for long enough that you can have a reasonable shower. The up side of this is you also get a block heater. The downside is it's not portable and is harder to fit. Maybe you already planned to do this and i've just misinterpreted your post, sorry if so. Second, reference the length of pipework, as short as possible is ideal as it saves you running an engine coolant hose around the vehicle, which is asking for trouble, although campers do do this for this exact reason. Campers however rarely sit on corrugations, and are often polished to death at the weekends.... and thus dont have the issue of chaffing a coolant line that will strand you on a remote track somewhere.... So yeah i'm planning to keep it as short as possible. The issue with this is that the control valve for the heat exchanger is on the unit itself, and not motorised as far as i'm aware. Not on the ones i've found anyway. So that means that in a defender shower, you'll end up setting the heat to one temperature, going for a shower at the other end of the vehicle, and then being caught short when the temp isn't right and needing to hot foot it to the front again to adjust it! I've yet to come up with a way round this short of routing the coolant line to the rear or where you can reach it from the shower, or showering whilst sat on the bonnet lol, comfy, but not a great view for the rest of the camp site! There's more than enough thermal mass in the fluid you're passing from the block to the heat exchanger to have it not cool down over the length of the vehicle in any significant way, so that's not the issue to my mind, the problem is the adjustment of temp as above. The last issue i see is with water quantity stored in the vehicle. You'll likely have about 40L or something unless you're connected to a mains supply at a campsite. If you've only got 40L you'll want to turn the shower on, wet down, then turn off again, wash, then turn on again and rinse off. Easy, just use a valve at the shower head end and you've got on/off control. But the problem is that your heat source is still running with the flow of shower water turned off. The heat source is running at say 85 degrees through your heat exchanger. With the flow of water from the shower turned off whilst you're busy sudding down, you then end up with the first litre or so of water out the shower head being dangerously hot, till you've run it for a bit and stabilised it again. Fine with unlimited water supply and adults showering, less good if a child is in there that doesn't quite understand that it's not like daddy's one at home, or if you've only got 40L of water on the side of a mountain somewhere!! So they're my thoughts. I haven't solved most of them yet, but it could add to your list of ponderings, and maybe i've come up with something that might help. |
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24th Apr 2020 8:47am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8025 
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I have ^^^^ setup as described. Thermo top heats coolant. Heat exchanger on output side of webasto before it goes I to vehicle heater matrix.
I have posted up on it here numerous times with pictures. I have a heat exchanger with blender valve on top. I shower at front of vehicle where I can reach blender. Coolant temp of 30 to 40 deg gives me a very comfortable, almost too hot shower, with iirc 25 plate exchanger. Cold off. Webasto just runs circulation pump when coolant is around 40deg anyway, this is required to keep coolant moving. Yes, very hot water in shower after a switch off is something to be mindful of. Some ball valve at shower head. Fed from sureflow self priming on demand pump. Shower water supply, I have garden hose attachment to pump which goes to jerry can or water course. Shower head hose with 2m extension screws of to output of heat exchanger. All fitted under bonnet. Shower head and shower water hose removed when in transit. Top tip, standing on a waffle or part of waffle with flip flops makes a good base when showering. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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24th Apr 2020 12:56pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8025
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https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic70512.html?highlight=shower Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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24th Apr 2020 1:02pm |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6605 
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FYI I do loads of the Webasto connectors as and when you need them: https://www.defender2.net/shop/webasto-dia...s-c15.html
 1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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24th Apr 2020 1:03pm |
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| Badger110 Member Since: 06 Feb 2018 Location: South hams Posts: 1039
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Good feedback
We're getting prepped for a RTW trip which will allow us to live wherever we are for any length of time. We don't plan on coming back to the UK for any particular reason although we are looking to prep the trip with probably 6-12 months all around the UK first. I have 2 webastos thermo tops which i have succesfully tested and run today and they are now stripped down to be cleaned and new gaskets fitted. One is from a BMW and came with the k line controller but i haven't figured out how to get it wired up ( i swapped the control board over from the other webasto to fire it up and run it ) One Webasto will be fitted to the coolant side of the truck for the colder parts of the journey and the other will be fitted for the shower/heating scenario. I want to keep both elements seperate , one for the engine, one for the heating/shower. The 2nd Webasto will be used for a small radiator within the truck, and the side line to that heating loop will be a heat exchanger which i hope to run the shower off. Unless i have a bountiful supply of water, the shower will only be used by source, ie river, lake etc, so i do need to test the theory of how the fed water will work through the hear exchanger, if at all. I looked at a 30 plate, but if i can get it in the space, i'll go for a 60. My plan is to have two valves at the side of the truck, one to plug a hose in from source>pump>heat exchanger and then outlets to the second valve which i plug the shower head into. If i find the water after the heat exchanger is too hot, i can either lengthen the shower hose or lengthen the pipe from the heat exchanger to the second valve or lastly, split the original inlet and work out a mixer scenario. Or it may come out luke warm in which case, i don't need to do anything as that'll do. Whichever way i do it, it's a trial and error sequence until i get it right. The radiator will have TRV valves fitted so if the shower is in use, i don't neccesarily have to have the radiator on. However to heat up a small radiator in the truck won't take too long and i might be able to squeeze in 2! The truck isn't our only source of heat, cooking and sleeping as we have another project about to start which will be our main ' home ' towed behind us. However the truck will be kitted out so it's possible to live in for periods of time without being uncomfortable. |
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24th Apr 2020 7:37pm |
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| Badger110 Member Since: 06 Feb 2018 Location: South hams Posts: 1039
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I have had some off you already |
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24th Apr 2020 7:40pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8025
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You will need the mixer valve or just learn to time how long the heater needs to run for to give you optimum shower temp. In mine its 11 mins from 15deg ambient, puma coolant capacity. That's about 40 odd deg which is ample. 60 plate will reduce time or be too hot. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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25th Apr 2020 3:00pm |
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| BykerPete Member Since: 02 Feb 2015 Location: Midlands Posts: 159 
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I had a heat exchanger in the cooling circuit on my 300tdi many years ago. Controlled the temperature by varying the speed of the pump with a potentiometer. Drink Coffee, Talk to Strangers and Take Photos.
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1st Jul 2020 3:36pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8025
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engine water pump? Or separate circulation pump dedicated to webastonsystem? Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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1st Jul 2020 3:50pm |
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| BykerPete Member Since: 02 Feb 2015 Location: Midlands Posts: 159
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Shurflo on demand 12v pump fitted under seat. Connected to push fit hose connector on front bumper for long hose to connect to water source (bucket, Jerry can, river, lake etc.)
Output side of pump connected to shower head on side of vehicle. No webasto needed. Just leave engine running. I’ll try and find pictures.... Drink Coffee, Talk to Strangers and Take Photos. |
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1st Jul 2020 4:07pm |
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| BykerPete Member Since: 02 Feb 2015 Location: Midlands Posts: 159
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Bought most of the bits for my shower from here back in 2002. Imported from USA at the time, but I’m sure something could be rigged up from UK based parts etc.
https://www.hotcampshowers.com/vehicle_mounted_shower Drink Coffee, Talk to Strangers and Take Photos. |
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1st Jul 2020 4:15pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8025
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Ok, i have heat exchanger to plumb straight in, no webasto, changing the speed on the shurflow pump would work well, assuming max speed is cool enough! Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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1st Jul 2020 4:19pm |
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