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Home > Puma (Tdci) > Another Non Starter

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JBLancs Member Since: 17 Oct 2019 Location: Lancashire Posts: 40

Another Non Starter Land Rover Defender 2.4 TDCI 2009 model, will not start on the key. The fob works fine and operates the central locking the immobiliser light seems to do what it normally does but when the key is turned to the furthest position the starter does not spin. The blower and radio go off as per normal. I've swapped the starter today and have the same issue with a different starter. The vehicle can be bump started and drives and runs fine. Sorry I know this has been covered plenty before, could someone point me in the right direction.

24th Mar 2020 6:28pm

Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6644	Is the starter relay clicking under the driver's seat when you turn the key to start?  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top 2015 D90 XS SW
24th Mar 2020 6:32pm

JBLancs Member Since: 17 Oct 2019 Location: Lancashire Posts: 40	Can't hear anything I'll try with the seat out?
24th Mar 2020 6:40pm

Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6644	You probably won't with the seat in. You may need to put your finger on top and feel for it clicking. See blackwolf's PDF for relay IDs. You will might be missing some (if non aircon/non ABS) but the tabs should show where these would have fitted. https://www.defender2.net/gallery/albums/u...Relays.pdf  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top 2015 D90 XS SW
24th Mar 2020 6:47pm

JBLancs Member Since: 17 Oct 2019 Location: Lancashire Posts: 40	The relay clicks when the ignition is turned, I have swapped it for a known good one and the problem persists.
24th Mar 2020 7:06pm

Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6644	Ignition turned on or when turned to start? If ignition you’ve got your finger on the wrong relay (probably the “main” relay). If start then relay is working ok.  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top 2015 D90 XS SW
24th Mar 2020 7:14pm

JBLancs Member Since: 17 Oct 2019 Location: Lancashire Posts: 40	Looks like it could maybe be the ignition switch? But it is correctly cutting power to the radio etc at position 3? Could I try linking across the two terminals on the starter and see if it will spin up? What would be the best thing to do this with?
24th Mar 2020 7:31pm

JBLancs Member Since: 17 Oct 2019 Location: Lancashire Posts: 40	Sorry just seen your last message maybe it was the wrong relay, what colour wires come out of the starter relay?
24th Mar 2020 7:32pm

JBLancs Member Since: 17 Oct 2019 Location: Lancashire Posts: 40

Just been out for another look, I think that it was the main relay I could hear clicking when the key was turned and nothing from the starter relay. I've just had a go with another vehicle and you can hear the difference between the main relay clicking when ignition turned on and the starter relay when it fires up. I took the main relay out and I could hear the starter relay click I couldn't hear this on the vehicle which wont start.

24th Mar 2020 7:43pm

JBLancs Member Since: 17 Oct 2019 Location: Lancashire Posts: 40	So I can this morning confirm that the main relay clicks in but nothing on the starter relay. What does this suggest? Cheers
25th Mar 2020 8:43am

blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17626	First thought would be a loose connection on one of the relays, which is a very, very common Puma fault.
25th Mar 2020 10:02am

Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6644

Wrote all the below and then thought... have you tried a different relay in case it has failed? ---- Get 6 inch+ length of reasonably fat wire. Turn the ignition on, make sure it's out of gear. Starter Feed Diagnosis: Remove the starter relay from its socket, should be third from the back including empty tabs. Has brown/white, brown/red, black/orange, white/red wires. With your wire, bridge the power terminals (with the brown/white and brown/red wires). If cranks and starts then the power wiring to the starter is OK, and the ECU is de-immobilised. So it's the trigger or enable not working (next stage). If the starter turns and it does not start the ECU is immobilised (see immobilised section below). If starter does not turn - faulty starter (you have changed this though) or wiring to it. Enable/Trigger Diagnosis: Keep or switch ignition back on. Refit the relay and turn the socket over. With your wire, from the wire side of the socket make a duplicate connection from a ground point (e.g. bolt holding the fuse box down) to the terminal with the black/orange wire. Now try and turn the key to start. If it cranks and starts, it's the enable line from the 10AS or engine ECU which is faulty.! If it cranks and does not start then the ECU is immobilised (see below). If it does not turn, remove the temporary wire link. Using your wire, again from the wire side fit one end alongside the white/red terminal. NOTE THIS SHOULD RUN THE STARTER. Touch the other end to the brown/white terminal. If it cranks and starts - it's the ignition switch or the wiring from it to the relay. If it cranks and does not start then the ECU is immobilised (see below). If the ECU is immobilised This seems unlikely as it would not fuel the engine but you can tow/bump start it: Turn ignition off. Remove the instrument pack plug and with a straightened paperclip bridge pins 3 and 4 in the plug and leave disconnected from the pack. Now turn the ignition on and try to start with the key. Basically, there are three things to try with your wire. Bridging the relay power terminals, manually enabling the relay, manually triggering it. Let me know how you get on.  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top 2015 D90 XS SW

25th Mar 2020 12:12pm

JBLancs Member Since: 17 Oct 2019 Location: Lancashire Posts: 40	Thanks Martin That's exactly what I needed, I will work through it tomorrow. I have swapped the starter relay for a different one so would have thought that its okay? I'll report back once I've worked through your list.
25th Mar 2020 8:50pm

JBLancs Member Since: 17 Oct 2019 Location: Lancashire Posts: 40	Click image to enlarge This is the setup I have under the drivers seat.
25th Mar 2020 9:37pm

Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6644	Bagsy the 20p!  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top 2015 D90 XS SW
25th Mar 2020 10:03pm

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