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DSC-off

Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1400

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

What I like about Grenadier

With pictures and video clips of the chassis and axles released today, what more do we now know about the Grenadier and what looks good, or not so good? As more details are released we can build up a picture of how it’s shaping up.

Chassis.
A ladder frame chassis is a good start. Ineos state it’s made from high strength steel, as you would expect these days, but it’s up to 4.0mm thick in places. The chassis rails are wide spaced at the back end, good for torsional rigidity, narrowing at the front to allow for steering movement and mounting the engine. This design is also better for crash performance, tapered rails will deform in a controlled manner, rather than send a shock wave down a straight rail. The rails also appear to have internal reinforcements, puddle welded through from the outside (slots in the rails), a good way to reinforce local areas without adding too much weight.
Chassis crossmembers, including the bolt on front and rear bumper sections, there are a total of 8 crossmembers in the chassis. Again good for torsional stiffness.

Suspension and axles.
Beam axles, coil suspension and all round disc brakes (vented at the front) were really just what we were expecting, no surprises there.

The front suspension is a 4 link design, 2 upper and 2 lower arms, similar to what Jeep have used on their beam axle vehicles for years. No Panhard Rod is required for lateral location and deleting the “C-spanner” arms gives better articulation, it doesn’t “wind-up” the bushes so much. All of the suspension bushes, front and rear, look to be of a large enough size to do their job and last a long time.

* Edit- the front suspension does have a Panhard Rod, as does the Jeep Wrangler, but Jeep call it a track bar. *

Rear Suspension is a 5 link design, 4 parallel arms plus a Panhard Rod, inboard mounted coil springs. That Panhard Rod may take a bit of a hammering during it’s life, but that’s what it’s there for, taking all of the side load on the axle. Upper and lower arms look suitably heavy duty, made from large diameter tube.

6 stud wheel hub pattern. Good to see that, it’s not a wheel hub carried over from a passenger car platform.

Engines and gearboxes. BMW 3.0 litre straight 6, turbocharged engines, petrol and diesel. Great, not some half-assed 4 cylinder 2.0 litre. Then the gearboxes have been designed, built and proven to work with these engines. Automatic is certainly going to be available, hopefully the option of a manual too. It will be very interesting find out more about the transfer box and the four wheel drive system.

It’s all looking good so far to me. Things do appear to have been spec’d properly, not just using something that was already on another vehicle they made. There appears to be a real effort to get it right, this is critical for a new brand starting with zero reputation. The only downside is all of this is not going to be cheap.

Last edited by DSC-off on 30th Apr 2020 2:23pm. Edited 2 times in total

11th Mar 2020 10:42pm

markb110

Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2627

I like the fact that Ineos are giving McGoven the big fat bird.

11th Mar 2020 11:07pm

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

Re: What I like about Grenadier

DSC-off wrote:
The only downside is all of this is not going to be cheap.

I wish you hadn't of said that. I really am hoping for £35,000 (less would be great!). As much as the petrolhead that I am, for almost 50 years, now, I simply can't justify spending much more than a third of £100,000 on a 'car'. I look at the Jimny, that Dacia Duster (£10,000!!!) and the new Dacia which is apparently going to be incredibly cheap, and I think it can be done. I know I may be clutching at straws with the Grenadier, but if it's over £35k then I'll have to move on. Now left.

16th Mar 2020 7:11pm

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1777

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White

If the quality of the finished units matches the videos, with low production numbers you'll see no change from £85k

16th Mar 2020 8:24pm

Bluest

Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4206

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

I wish I could find where I read it, but I’m certain I’ve seen them state they are aiming for about 20% above the usual double cab pickups like Ranger and Hi Lux 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

16th Mar 2020 8:31pm

discomog

Member Since: 09 May 2015
Location: Notts/Lincs Border
Posts: 2526

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

The Jimny with its economies of scale and the Duster with its cheap labour costs and economies of scale results in a low cost 4x4. The spec of the Grenadier particularly with a 6 cylinder power plant from Bavaria and all the other goodies mentioned above will possibly make even the new Defender look cheap! Defender 90XS SW
Mini Countryman Cooper S
Morgan Plus 8

16th Mar 2020 8:33pm

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1777

Plus the Duster is made from bean cans and the old plastic inserts from Milk Tray too - sat in one a few weeks ago and damn!

You get what you pay for, its would be nice if it is reasonably priced as you're not paying for a 'quality' badge, Victoria Posh marketing or supply various hooray Henry types with sponsorship deals, but I suspect it will be nearer my £85k than £35 or even a crew cab 4x4 plus 10%.

16th Mar 2020 8:45pm

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

Probably be cheaper to buy a New Defender 110 X........ Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

16th Mar 2020 9:00pm

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

But I understood they are aiming for the utility market (am I wrong?) - utility companies, emergency services, etc. You can buy a HiLux for £27,000. If they price it wayyy above vehicles like the HiLux, what's the point? The Toyotas are the benchmark. Watching Grenadier videos and listening to those who go off-roading, it's clear that they actually want a 'cheap' utility 4x4 that can be hose out. I know I'm bitching because I fear you may be right, but any price higher than a new Defender is surely a mistake. I thought the idea was to fill the slot left by the new plastic and absurdly-costly Defender? I say again, the HiLux is £27,000 start price. Now left.

16th Mar 2020 9:37pm

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

Bluest wrote:
I wish I could find where I read it, but I’m certain I’ve seen them state they are aiming for about 20% above the usual double cab pickups like Ranger and Hi Lux

So that would make it £36,000! That would do for me - I'd be one of the first owners! Now left.

16th Mar 2020 9:41pm

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1777

I hope their aim is better than mine!

I aim to eat and drink less and win the lottery each week!

17th Mar 2020 9:01am

lonewolf

Member Since: 23 Oct 2013
Location: North East England
Posts: 209

2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Zambezi Silver

There are some references to the Jimny above, apparently Suzuki say there are only limited numbers available this year and will not be available at all in the UK in 2021 due to UK emission laws that the Jimny won’t comply to and Suzuki aren’t prepared to redesign the power plant just to suit the UK market.
(Ref Autoexpress)

19th Apr 2020 9:53am

Pilgrimmick

Member Since: 16 Nov 2015
Location: Highlands
Posts: 582

WhT I like about the grenadier, nothing! There is absolutely nothing to like apart from marketing hype, makes the defender launch look slick. 80" 1948
Lightweight V8
Bowler Tomcat
130 Station wagon
90 300tdi
(Santana PS10 pick up)
Range Rover L322 (Ful fat)

19th Apr 2020 7:01pm

DSC-off

Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1400

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Last edited by DSC-off on 20th Apr 2020 9:23pm. Edited 1 time in total

20th Apr 2020 8:38pm

GREENI

Member Since: 22 Aug 2010
Location: staffs
Posts: 10380

It sounds like one of those crappy ‘build a vehicle’ magazines, where the first issue is the chassis and it’s only £2.99, but the next 400 issues are £10.99...

20th Apr 2020 9:07pm

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