 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Will the 2020 Defender be reliable ? |
 
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| Huttopia Member Since: 23 Feb 2016 Location: West Midlands Posts: 1972  
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It is easy for cars to develop a poor reputation. The P38 had its problems, notably electronics and an uncanny ability to deadlock the moment you left the keys in it, but I think the damage was done by second / third / fourth owners unable or unwilling to pay for proper maintenance. The market is then full of vehicles riddled with problems and the reputation sealed.
Unless there has been a real step change in engineering quality with the new Defender it will be as reliable as the rest of the current offerings, which if you look at the Disco 5, Disco Sport and L405 RR doesn’t bode well. I was at my independent LR garage yesterday and they had a 67 plate Disco Sport in for a new engine. At one point last year Listers in Droitwich had 55 courtesy cars out. I’ve got several friends who have handed back their hybrid RR or Disco 5s and walked away. They are moving to Volvo XCs, Audi Q7s and so on- voting with their feet. I really hope the new Defender is an improvement on the current range from LR- people’s jobs are at risk not just at JLR but throughout the supply chain. Another poorly engineered and finished product will in my view tip the balance. Fingers crossed 🤞 |
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23rd Jan 2020 8:10am |
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| Fat Cog Member Since: 19 Mar 2012 Location: Oxfordshire & Devon Posts: 502 
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As its going to made in Slovakia it has a fighting chance of being both reliable and well-built; a friend of mine is a senior engineer with JLR and cant believe the difference between UK & Slovakia built D5's, the QC & reliability of the Slovakian Disco's has been a revelation.
But before we batter JLR to death we also need to reflect upon the fact that other premium brands are increasingly having QC & reliability issues, just look at any Audi, Merc or Tesla forum & you'll see that JLR are not alone when it comes to building dodgy motors...other brands just seem to hide it better. My JLR friend reckons that the industry benchmark for premium brands to which ALL manufacturers aspire is Lexus, however, few, if any, manage to reach the same standard Lexus have managed to achieve for many years. Since 1973...S1, Air Portable's, Defender's, but only my Wolf TUL HS GS remains |
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23rd Jan 2020 9:22am |
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| Huttopia Member Since: 23 Feb 2016 Location: West Midlands Posts: 1972
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I was at Dyson from 2000-2002 when the manufacturing went to Malaysia, and the built quality and QA was a massive improvement. Given the production lines were shipped over there from Malmesbury it told a story.
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23rd Jan 2020 9:33am |
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| defender9 Member Since: 12 Mar 2016 Location: Fylde Coast Posts: 1629 
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I would agree with the above comment, my Skoda Yeti is extremely well built and reliable. However if the underlying design of components is not well executed even when they are assembled competently, failures will happen, I’m alluding to the gearbox problems with the Puma as just one example. |
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23rd Jan 2020 10:11am |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3287 
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I'd like to think the Slovakian Defender will be reliable but on past form it's extremely unlikely. Land Rover have been pretty much bottom of their class regardless whether manufactured here or in state of the art facilities in China, Brazil, India etc. It's clearly a design issue and JLR's business plan building down to a price using cheap materials/parts and no care for longevity or quality. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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23rd Jan 2020 10:58am |
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| milesr3 Member Since: 12 Feb 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 873 
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The Discovery 5 is the closest in terms of D7u platform and drivetrain isn't it? But without the SDV6 engine. I hadn't realised how serious the DPF / oil dilution issues were with the D8 platform (e.g. Discovery Sport); that it has been engineered in a manner that makes successful DPF regeneration such an obstacle in everyday usage and that the permitted oil dilution was increased with greater probability of engine failure for the first owner(s). Quite how JLR took the Freelander 2 and turned it into this beggars belief. There does appear to be many issues that are wider than where the vehicle is assembled. I sincerely hope that the L663 is a reboot. |
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23rd Jan 2020 12:16pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2636  
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I wrote this as a reply to another post but feel that it is worth repeating -
============================================================== It does make a mockery of manufactures claims when they say that they have conducted a million miles of testing. Impressive if it was one vehicle, encouraging if it was 500k each by two vehicles but the reality is we don't know how many vehicles used, average miles driven, how they were driven, or even if they were driven at all and not on a jig in a design studio somewhere. As mentioned before the real testers are unfortunately the first generation beta owners. The sad fact is that the car industry is ruled by credit companies with so many vehicles sold on PCP. As long as the vehicle survives the first owner and the warranty period after that the manufacturers don't care as they are only there to sell new vehicles. And here is the problem for Land Rover - they had / have a reputation for longevity especially next to other makes of vehicles on the road. The longer a vehicle is on the road the more things go wrong as they get older. Cars get scrapped. Land Rovers get repaired and this is why people in some quarters say they are unreliable. The 'reputation' of the older vehicles (where the same age car would have been scrapped and replaced) affects new LR sales and so has a knock on effect to testing and quality control. Toyota has the opposite and enviable reputation. At present it is a perpetual cycle and I think that the only way LR can break this is to go back to a simpler / cheaper vehicle and sell in bulk. Think the original Freelander One, but would modern legislation allow it anymore. ================================================================== I don't think that the current models two year servicing is doing the company any favours and minor issues are not found and corrected, even without the owner knowing, until it is too late. But again if it survives the warrantee period why should they care. But they should as per my comment it affects their reputation. How many potential buyers of a modern Range Rover are put off because someone in a pub is bad mouthing a P38 his best mates, uncles son's whatever's battery died. Ironically, my brother has had his P38 for 20 years now - not saying nothing has gone wrong but he can maintain it and that is a dying art in this day an age where neighbours never even lift the bonnet on the driveway, let alone check anything else on the cars. When I was a kid in the 70's dads would take their car engines out and change the clutch and still be indoors for dinner. I still carry a scar to prove I helped. |
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23rd Jan 2020 12:51pm |
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| RDR Member Since: 27 Apr 2018 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 592
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We took delivery of a new Slovakian built D5 in September. Compared to my previous Five D3/4s the build quality is miles ahead. The Build quality can't account for poor design in the engineering or software, I had reservations about oil dilution but they seemed to have fixed that now.
My last D4 was terrible quality. Going by my D5 experience im looking forward to my Defender being of similar build quality. 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE RR MY23 HSE PHEV D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold D4 MY12 HSE - Gone D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten |
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23rd Jan 2020 5:45pm |
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| zilch Member Since: 11 Sep 2019 Location: Whitsundays & Sydney Posts: 817 
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go buy a mazda he says, or another Japanese car.. really.. As a brit living in OZ for the last 15 years, the usual
local myopic views.. Nissan GU 3 litre patrols were known locally as hand grenades as their engine would just explode and Nissan would not have a bit of it. Landcruiser 200 series V8, excessive oil consumption and turbo problems.. hmm i wonder where the V8 engine grave yard is.. Not much in the public eye was there?? As for Mazda https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/...53698.html the Mazda range is suffering from similar problems to LR on their small diesel engines, and they have been less than forthcoming on fixing it, there is a potential class action being brought by owners The recent post of the youtube channel where some Aussies round the camp fires slagging off the D4, just because it had 19" wheels/tyres. That could be remedied just by adding 18" and some decent footwear, and there they were surrounded by highly modified Toyota's and Nissans, hardly stock from the dealers.. As someone who listens to the crap spouted in OZ about how bullet proof the jap rigs are and how crap LR is, I would say the reality is something different on the ground.. AND I AM NOT DETRACTING FROM THE ISSUES RAISED ON THE 4 POT DIESEL, just pointing out all manufacturers have issues and they all seem to want to walk away from their responsibilities in some shape or form What is going for the main Japanese brands, their dealer networks have the depth and reach across Australia, something LR gave up doing about 30 years ago.. more fool them.. yet another pommie bar steward down under MY20 110 P400 SE Defender MY10 3.0 RR Sport |
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26th Jan 2020 12:51am |
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| mikelike Member Since: 31 Aug 2011 Location: new zealand Posts: 108 |
Yes Zilch most manufactures are having problems with there diesels and yes the dealer network of JLR is very poor in straya and NZ .
There is a possible class action starting through Bannister law re JLR DPF issues from 2016 on in straya and JLR has just had to cough up with 6.7 million re range rover air suspension failures and we must not forget Sally Morphy , who received a record payout under Australian consumer law when they had to refund her 283000 dollars plus her legal fees of 135000 dollars for a lemon Range Rover ! The fact JLR does not test new vehicles in Australia does not help public perception and with a poor dealer network no wonder there sales are dwindling . If a market requires wheel and tyre options for genuine overlanding , why can this not be factored into the vehicle design ? The problem they have is , they claim to be selling a premium product at a higher purchase price , but in reality they are below average in dependability and quality . Is the new defender going to change this ? I also struggle to understand how a Land Rover built in Slovakia is any better than one built in the UK , as they both come down the same track built by robots , with very little human intervention . |
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26th Jan 2020 9:10am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753 
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Additionally they both use the same cheapest quality components made in Mexico and Brazil or China on both UK and Slovakian production lines. It’s only as good as the poor quality components it is built with............. i now know so many DS and Evoque owners with cars with seized Ingenium engines from oil dilution issues (of course every one of them is also not driven the way JLR says they should be driven so many owners are having to foot The cost a potential £15000 new engine in many cars less than 12 months old) that I am now in a quandary about replacing my two current cars with one Ingenium powered New Defender 90 PHEV. At least with a BEV there’s no DPF or engine oil to dilute through Incomplete regens and the PHEV has the less troublesome petrol Ingenium engine.
I’m wondering now if I shouldn’t call it a day waiting for a 90PHEV and spend equivalent money on a low miles Puma 90 XS or Adventure instead as there are quite a few on the LR Approved Used website at the moment. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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26th Jan 2020 9:59am |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
Give 18 month and see how reliable they are
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26th Jan 2020 10:21am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298 
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off on a slight tangent here (for a change)
the issues with the engines (and probably many other things) so far as I can see often stems from the need to improve emissions. take the disco sport and the dpf problems and mention of almost new cars needing replacement engines. when improvements are requires in emissions do they take into consideration the bigger picture and the carbon foot print associated with building dpfs, short engine life etc etc. take my 2.4. I'm able to achieve upto 40 mpg without the egr in play etc. emissions at MOT are excellent. for example if I'm able to use say 25% less fuel than a 2.2 is it reasonable to assume that theres an argument to suggest going back to basics could reduce the whole supply chain of shipping oil round the world by 25% 25% !!! little grettle thorn in the side would be hoping with joy. there's so many basic things that could be done to improve things and yet no one in the know seems to be able to grasp the bigger picture and make sensible, common sense decisions. I only have to look out my window and in a stretch of just 20 mtrs of road there's more patches of tarmac repairs than I care to count with probably another at least 8 patches required ....and I'm not kidding. If they come and fix them in one hit I'll be amazed. Instead they'll likely make 3 of 4 jobs out it. that's means getting set up 3 or 4 times, travelling to 'site' 3 of 4 times. can no one see the logic in hitting it once and doing a proper job. the prelim costs must time and again far out weigh the cost of the job itself 
its a mad mad world. we need to take a step back to the world of corona pop bottles with a deposit, milk delivered by electric milk float, news papers for wrapping the fish and chips etc. we're all doomed. doomed I say. doomed.  |
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26th Jan 2020 10:26am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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What the EGR valve does is not tested for in the current MOT so you can't know that your emissions are excellent. You can only know that it passes the current test. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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26th Jan 2020 10:46am |
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