 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > The new Land Rover Defender: Gavin Green's view |
 
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018   
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A thoughfull piece with some interesting turn of phrases, I don't think JLR will be offering the "tarmac and tedium" pack on the optional extras list:
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/features/opi...vin-green/ |
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4th Jan 2020 6:49am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I agree.
Why are journalists being kept away from driving them? |
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4th Jan 2020 9:04am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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Probably because the only ones currently available are prototype or very early build and LR don't want views tainted by driving cars that aren't proper production standard. You do get the impression that they've launched it a bit before it was ready. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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4th Jan 2020 9:43am |
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| Lodelaner Member Since: 04 Feb 2010 Location: Lambourn Posts: 632 
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Just a little bit - and we can expect owners up to the 3.5 yr facelift point to continue with the road testing R&D on behalf of LR. The firm is cash strapped and not chucking money at it. I wouldn't call myself a cynic, perhaps a realist. Just been reading about the reliability of RRSport and how dealers are struggling with it. JB @Lodelaner Instagram Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content |
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4th Jan 2020 10:37am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Got a link to anything online? |
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4th Jan 2020 11:23am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753 
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There have been a huge number of Quality Control issues in the last 2 years with RRS, especially with SVO paint jobs but also the InControl Touch systems have problems with screens going blank and only being able to get them back with a restart of the engine. Also, IMO, LR has stretched the price well into L405 FFRR territory and that is dissuading buyers, along with the SDv6 crank issue that JLR Said was fixed but cars are still suffering failures, and LR claims its the owners problem...... at £18000 a pop that’s an expensive design fault for the owner to swallow as it requires a new engine to fix. The most popular models being diesels when nobody wants a diesel doesn’t help either., and the Petrols are guzzlers unless you have the PHEV version.
I would now have replaced my 3rd RRS (and it was an excellent car on and offroad) with a 4th in 2018 had a0 the price of the SDv6 HDS Dynamic not increased by over £4000 in 3 years to well over £73000 before you added the items that became optional that had been standard on my 2015 car, the snapping crank issue put me off having another SDv6 and as I’m sliding into retirement I didn’t want the fincancual millstone that they have become of a new one depreciation at in excess of £1000 a month......... something I fear New Defender might also suffer from once sales start to build up. I decided to have a break from buying LR products new every 3-4 years and went out on a limb and plunged into PHEV ownership with a Mini Countryman PHEV............ in 18 months ownership it has had one unscheduled visit to the dealers to do a charging software update for the HV battery system that wouldn’t take by the normal over the air updating system others it has not visited the dealership - it’s first service is due in May 2020 which is an oil change for the hardly used 1.5ltr 3cylinder turbo petrol engine, I am able to use mine in pure electric mode for 75-80% of my motoring, it cost half the price of a new RRS and costs next to nothing to fuel as I can charge it from my domestic solar panels......... it’s burned approx 350 litr of petrol since I bought it - that’s 10 tank fulls Of 4* unleaded in 18 months! I was filling my RRS’s 90ltr tank every 10 days. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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4th Jan 2020 7:56pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2634  
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It does make a mockery of manufactures claims when they say that they have conducted a million miles of testing.
Impressive if it was one vehicle, encouraging if it was 500k each by two vehicles but the reality is we don't know how many vehicles used, average miles driven, how they were driven, or even if they were driven at all and not on a jig in a design studio somewhere. As mentioned before the real testers are unfortunately the first generation beta owners. The sad fact is that the car industry is ruled by credit companies with so many vehicles sold on PCP. As long as the vehicle survives the first owner and the warranty period after that the manufacturers don't care as they are only there to sell new vehicles. And here is the problem for Land Rover - they had / have a reputation for longevity especially next to other makes of vehicles on the road. The longer a vehicle is on the road the more things go wrong as they get older. Cars get scrapped. Land Rovers get repaired and this is why people in some quarters say they are unreliable. The 'reputation' of the older vehicles (where the same age car would have been scrapped and replaced) affects new LR sales and so has a knock on effect to testing and quality control. Toyota has the opposite and enviable reputation. At present it is a perpetual cycle and I think that the only way LR can break this is to go back to a simpler / cheaper vehicle and sell in bulk. Think the original Freelander One, but would modern legislation allow it anymore. I have no answers, only my thoughts...….. |
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4th Jan 2020 9:00pm |
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| nidge n Member Since: 04 Feb 2012 Location: Cheshire Posts: 719
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Makes total sense what you’re saying. Sliding towards retirement makes you evaluate expenditures in a totally different way. Having the money takes a back seat to value for money. That is where I’m struggling with the whole JLR business model. The prices are now out of reach for the majority and I’m not too sure that their products stand out significantly enough to justify the premium. I was looking towards the Defender to be the more honest, less flamboyant line of the brand. The price, and therefore the depreciation, lifts it into the same bracket as the rest of the brand. |
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5th Jan 2020 7:26pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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Nidge M, I am having serious doubts about going for a New Defender 90 to replace both my 1996 TDi300 that has loads of life left in it and only does 1200 miles a year at the moment although when I retire in February that will increase as I work abroad 6 months of the year so miss half of the offroad club drives ....... Also my Countryman is 18 months old, has no issues at all and has loads of life left in it. I would like a 90 SE or S but thec110 prices being what they are I’m struggling to justify spending so much on a single new car to replace two cars that I own outright anyway. A PCP is an attractive proposition but the GFV will be high so you are tied into replacing every 3 years once the warranty. PCP runs out and you suddenly realise how much the vehicle is really going to cost you if you want to keep what is probably a totally reliable well made vehicle. My TDi300 hasn’t got to 100,000 miles yet - another 6 years at present rate will get me there, but it has been the most reliable, cheapest to run car I have owned and it was 5 years old and 54000 miles on it when I bought it in 2001. It has given me so much pleasure over the years that it would be a wrench to sell it on and then be worried about doing what I do in it in a New Defender that would ding it or scratch it - things I am not worried about doing to a 24 year car that has matte Epsom Green paint work now I drive through a few gorse bushes and through deep heather - that’s what I bought it for in the first place - originally it was a sump guard for my Freelander1 that I started to take places LR never intended it to go and then it became a paintwork protector for the various Range Rovers, RRS’s and Evoques I’ve owned since 1995. I had a V8 Disco 1 and a TD5 Disco2 Auto before the Defender and Freelander - the Disciveries were the only LR’s I’ve owned that never went off road! All the others did plenty of times, even the Evoques. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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5th Jan 2020 9:05pm |
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