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Nick90pickup

Member Since: 21 Oct 2019
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 16

Hi Everyone,

I have changed the switch and still the same issue.

Any other ideas ?

24th Oct 2019 12:35pm

Martin
Site Admin

Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 6610

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red

Drat.

Does it no longer even try to start? Or is it trying for a few seconds then stops?

1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top

2015 D90 XS SW

24th Oct 2019 7:14pm

Nick90pickup

Member Since: 21 Oct 2019
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 16

Hi,

So ...... I put the dash back on and out of rage I tried the key and the stupid thing started. Not only did It start once it started 5 times in a row. Then I left it and it would not start. Left it longer and it would not start. I have 5 screws left over from the dash which I thought was a good thing when it start, now I think I have just made the job easier of taking the dash off again.

Same issue of a slight crank then nothing now. No idea what to do.with it now

24th Oct 2019 9:43pm

DAZ110

Member Since: 06 Dec 2007
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 2039

2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Barolo Black

Not a starter motor problem?

25th Oct 2019 11:07am

Martin
Site Admin

Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 6610

You've got one of the worst problems to resolve, an intermittent fault

These are the components involved in starting a 2.4 Tdci:

Engine ECU - mobilise code reception, fuelling and starter relay enable(*)
Immobiliser (10AS) - mobilise code generation and starter relay enable(*)
Instrument Pack - mobilise code transmission from 10AS to ECU
Starter Relay - switches power to the starter solenoid, coil inputs are starter switch and relay enable from above
Starter Motor Solenoid - switches power to the starter motor
Starter Motor - turns engine
Starter Switch - controls one side of starter relay coil

(*) some 2.4 Tdcis use the engine ECU to enable the starter relay, some use the 10AS.

As DAZ110 says, it could be a failing starter motor/starter solenoid (old school problem) and not an electronics issue (easy to blame where they are fitted!)

The key is finding why the cranking stops.

Is it:

1. the relay switching off because of immobiliser issues - either code generation, transmission or reception
2. the relay switching off because it is faulty
3. the starter motor turning off because of a faulty starter solenoid or internal motor fault

This all assumes the ignition/starter switch is all OK now and wired up correctly as per my previous picture

More quick things to try:

1. Swap the starter relay with a new one - relay could be faulty. Starter relay socket is yellow coloured with white/red, brown/red, brown/grey and black/orange wires.

2. Check Fuse 8 (10 Amp) under the steering wheel, the ignition supply to the 10AS might not be present so is not generating the mobilise code for the ECU to receive.

3. Check Fuses 6 and 7 (15 Amp and 20 Amp) under the seat box, these are the permanent supply to the 10AS

4. Check the tightness of the earth points on the bulkhead, particularly the header connector near the brake servo (grey connector with black wires, white cap, bolted to bulkhead).

If starter relay is OK and fuses+earth OK you can isolate/override the wiring of various of the components above with bypass wires at the starter relay. Not at the starter itself.

This needs some lengths of wire - a short thick length and a longer thinner length - and for you to be happy to do some temporary wiring to try things out.

1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top

2015 D90 XS SW

25th Oct 2019 12:12pm

psyla

Member Since: 22 Dec 2019
Location: nsw
Posts: 2

Martin.
My 110 starts most of the time but every now and then (becoming more frequent) it will crank with out starting then crank for about half a second.
Everyone has told me voltage drop or earth issue but i doubt it. I was suspecting immobiliser issue but not so sure now after finally making the time to do a bit of testing

Key power to the start relay is good on the red and white wire.
Main power to the (30) into the relay is good.

When the car starts correctly the black and orange wire to the engine ecm sees a voltage and the red and brown wire to the starter motor solenoid sees a voltage as should happen.

When the car does not start correctly the engine ecm drops voltage from the black and orange wire, i assume it does this by sending an equal voltage back along the black and orange wire to the start relay.

When this happens the the brown/red wire to the starter motor solenoid drop voltage due to deactivation of the starter relay.

I have swapped relays with the same problem reoccurring.

I can only assume that the engine ecm is seeing an input signal telling it not to let the engine start.
have only spent a few hrs on it today but think that checking sensor plugs it the next step and finding out what inputs are capable of this action.

A lot of people on this forum seem to be having this problem and all the obvious fixes, ie, ignition barrel, batteries, earths, loose terminals, starter motors haven't seemed to fix it.

thinking of buying a diagnostic tool, want to buy a Snap-on but can't find inflation on what cars they connect to.
not sure what info they will give me

Anyway that enough from me.
good luck to all with this fault (especially if your trying to leave a busy service station haha, all you can do is smile)

Any info would be much appreciated
Cant wait to fix it and move on to the next fault.

Cheers

22nd Dec 2019 9:20am

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