 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > 2020 Defender main discussion thread |
 
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| Scotm Member Since: 28 Feb 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 666   
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Whilst clearly not - LR did make a lot effort in the final defender factory tours to get folk to write down and pin to the wall what they wanted from the new defender. Must have gone to the landfill with the factory! |
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14th Oct 2019 8:37pm |
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10381 
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Nice Cozz.... wayalife
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14th Oct 2019 8:46pm |
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| dailysleaze Member Since: 23 May 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 237
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You can see how Jeep have gone about the "pedestrian safety" rules by sticky a big rubbery bumper on the front (similar to the Land Cruiser 70 series), whereas those same rules were supposed to have resulted in the death of the Defender.
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14th Oct 2019 8:55pm |
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| Setok Member Since: 16 Jan 2009 Location: Helsinki Posts: 422 
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Occasionally I go back and look at the new Defender and say to myself ‘OK, maybe it’s not so bad’. Then I see what Jeep has done with the Wrangler or I see a new Jimny drive by and I end up sobbing. What are Wrangler sales figures like, by the way? Jimny sales are apparently through the roof.
Land Rover had something most car manufacturers crave: an iconic vehicle with real heritage. A halo product that shines light on the rest of the range. |
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14th Oct 2019 9:23pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4655 
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I fail to see that with today's technology and materials that the basic shape of the Defender could not have been kept. All Gerri had to do was to tell all of the university graduates working for him "This is the shape I want, make it happen". Suzuki have done it with the Jimny and Jeep with the Wrangler. Where there's a will there's a way. A bit of common sense and brainpower could have overcome any issues needed for certification.There are ways today of adding structural strength with light weight composites so that the roll over integrity could be ensured. It would have cost less than going the route they did. What they had was instantly recognisable.
The basic idea behind Defender was good but sometimes the execution of the idea fell short of the ideal. With less penny pinching as far as parts were concerned the reliability issue could have been addressed. Personally, I think they will see their mistake as sales of the new vehicle plummet and in the future they will introduce the Defender Classic using the methods I mentioned above. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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14th Oct 2019 9:44pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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That does look nice ~ is the full spec you have listed available from Jeep direct or is some of it aftermarket? There's something about the doors on the Wrangler that just look so right. |
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15th Oct 2019 5:48am |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1316 
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I went down the Jeep route in February after many years of Defender ownership.
I knew the new Defender would be too expensive for me and too much of a departure from the traditional. As more detail on the new Defender has become available, I haven't regretted my decision at all. And this despite a couple of warranty issues and terrible service from the service department at the Leeds dealership. The Jeep is everything the new Defender could/should have been. An iconic design, sympathetically updated to bring it to an acceptable level for today's motoring. The stock specification on the Rubicon is impressive and as with old Defender, the range of bolt on aftermarket parts is massive. I may never convert mine from hard top to soft top, but it's good to know that I can simply by unbolting the roof, unclipping the rear window harness wiring connector and bolting on a soft top frame. Likewise, the doors can be removed in a matter of minutes. The Rubicon comes as standard with 17" KM2's, proper front and rear diff locks and a front anti roll bar disconnect system. It may not have air suspension or all the terrain response gizmo's, but I bet it would hold its own in stock trim against any stock new Defender on the muddy field tracks where I live. It is built on a proper old school chassis with solid axles and a proper transfer box, but has plenty of creature comforts like a decent sound system, dual zone climate control, leather heated seats, excellent LED headlights. I could go on, but this is a Defender forum. My point is that Jeep have managed to successfully pull off another step in the Jeep's evolution, whereas in my opinion, JLR have failed spectacularly. What they have produced is a great D4 replacement, albeit with a frightening amount of complexity and lack of user serviceability. As Blackwolf has commented, that body will be a nightmare to fix once the rot sets in. Probably not a problem for most owners as other than road salt, the vehicles won't get exposed to hostile environments and will be traded in long before problems set in. But if used daily in the mud and mire, then I expect there will be issues despite any amount of factory powder coating and cavity treatment. |
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15th Oct 2019 6:38am |
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| familymad Member Since: 13 Dec 2011 Location: Bucks Posts: 3481  
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 Click image to enlarge[/quote] Hands up if you have just been on the Jeep configurator  1951 80" S1 2.0
1995 110 300TDI 1995 90 300TDI |
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15th Oct 2019 6:43am |
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| NoDo$h Member Since: 18 Aug 2007 Location: Buried in deer guts in Dorset Posts: 972 
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Make sure you check the towing capacity
2200kg braked for the diesel, 2000kg braked for the petrol https://www.jeep.co.uk/4x4/towing-csv And the two-door can only tow 1500kg
54 Freelander modded for mud 2008 D3 SE 2010 90 XS SW 1978 88 Series 3 undergoing surgery with a new owner 2007 90 County Truck Cab - gone 2006 D3 SE - gone 2004 Freelander Sport - gay 1999 Disco V8 ES rotted to bits |
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15th Oct 2019 9:08am |
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| Setok Member Since: 16 Jan 2009 Location: Helsinki Posts: 422
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My guess is it will sell reasonably well, but not increase overall sales for Land Rover. In other words it will not expand their market but merely eat up other products (like the Disco) that people may have considered. Additionally, the lack of an honest, serious 4x4 may reduce the value and integrity of the brand so overall sales may even decrease. |
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15th Oct 2019 9:39am |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3753
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It is JLR’s new mission statement to go for high margins instead of volume, so budget versions will not be on the menu, I can see it appealing to those who tow big boats and caravans as a slightly cheaper alternative to a new RRS or D5. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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15th Oct 2019 10:07am |
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| chalky Member Since: 09 May 2008 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 483 
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All this talk of sales figures not being affected as people buy predominantly within the brand has all been heard before, when VW re introduced the Beetle there were fears that those who who bought Golfs, Polo and Passat would just buy a Beetle when in actual fact it attracted more focus on the brand and sales across the brand increased, think back 20 years and the Beetle was hot property..... they were everywhere,
MINI, another icon re imagined ! Every second car on the road seems to have a Mini badge on it, they all look exactly the same to my untrained eye but by all accounts they are each and every one vastly different ? DEFENDER owners will scrutinise the product On offer and measure it against ban icon but the vast majority of buyers will purchase on looks alone, the reality is DEFENDER is a brand like Barbour or Hunter wellies, all 3 go together but what actually sells is People just want to look and feel good about the car they drive, take Evoque for example... why on earth would anyone buy one ? But plenty have based purely on looks alone. Based on the amount of positive feedback I heard at the factory yesterday They aren’t going to be able to build these fast enough ? DEFENDER XS CSW 08 TONGA GREEN |
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15th Oct 2019 10:43am |
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| Setok Member Since: 16 Jan 2009 Location: Helsinki Posts: 422
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The problem with the MINI and Beetle argument is that both cars have strong visual ties to the earlier products. In VW's case the Beetle brought in interested parties who would not otherwise come to VW. I'm not convinced the Defender is really doing either of those jobs — the new Defender just doesn't have that same no nonsense iconic shape it became famous for, whereas the Wrangler, Jimny and G Wagon do.
It's funny that the Lego version is much closer! Edited to add that Barbour absolutely plays the heritage link with their products, having kept the iconic old waxed cotton jobs featuring quite prominently, in addition to newer technologies, and they do still refer to the country market that made them a success in the first place. Land Rover is doing neither. Just a pity Barbour seems to have moved all manufacture outside the UK, which means my current Northumbria might be my last Barbour. |
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15th Oct 2019 12:00pm |
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| chalky Member Since: 09 May 2008 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 483
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I kind of understand what your saying, but the beetle had a major hurdle to over come in that the engine was in the front, most people I know bought one because they had the previous incarnation which never worked, a trip to Malvern VW festival saw thousands in the car park, people just took it for what it was, a modern water cooled Re incarnation of a once forgotten classic, same with the MINI or Maxi as we like to call them, The ones I see bare little resemblance to the original, for a start they are over twice as big, we had a countryman that was the same size as an evoque and apart from the clock in the middle of the dash and the name...... which was in capital letters not lower case as they didn’t get the rights to that with the BMW merger all that time ago, the new MINI was rebuffed by the purists at the time but the marketing people knew that EVERYONE had been touched by the little car at some point in their lives, they might not have had one but they knew some one who had.....
Which I thought was cobblers...... then remembered my dad had a white 1275 GT with a tan leather roof covering in the 80’s 
As for Barbour, I bought 3 solway zippers 20 years ago, I wore one out and sold it used for £75, half way thro my second, The DEFENDER heritage I can’t help but think crudely that the powers that be have some how wickedly done this on purpose, knowing full well that it’s marmite architecture would divide opinion. DEFENDER XS CSW 08 TONGA GREEN |
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15th Oct 2019 1:00pm |
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