 | Home > Tdi > Boost pin change no throttle response |
 
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845  
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Hi Matt,
Three thoughts/questions from me: what do you mean when you say it starts and idles OK 'but over a minute before any rev changes'? Do you mean you have to wait a minute before anything will happen, or that each time you press the accelerator you have to wait a minute? Have you checked the vacuum advance pipe? Mine was holed in two places simply from abrasion. If you're losing pressure there, then the diaphragm won't be working as it should - maybe until 3000 revs when there's enough to do 'something' Are you sure the diaphgram is OK? seated properly and not punctured? I think either or both of these could lead to the symptoms you're having. Certainly worth checking or ticking off your list. Final thought - have you checked the vacuum hose at the turbo - not split or worn? You've said the turbo works, but .... I know my hose, from turbo to wastegate was knackered too. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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16th May 2019 7:28pm |
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| Les Brock Member Since: 20 Mar 2012 Location: Stroud, Glos Posts: 152 
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Did you lube
 up the pin so it moves freely  |
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16th May 2019 7:42pm |
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| Wildrover66 Member Since: 25 Apr 2018 Location: Kildare Posts: 52  
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Hi Thanks for replies
Last first pin moves freely and lined, moved manually whilst engine running various revs to no noticeable effect. This by design should eliminate the hose to the of the diaphragm and the diaphragm But both those and diaphragm checked and appear ok So car starts perfectly first time but full depression of the throttle has no effect at all no rev change then after approximately a minute it starts to respond then eventually revs freely New vacuum hose Only thing cant confirm is the waste gate operation I can move manually but cannot witness the operation while running Thanks again |
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16th May 2019 8:36pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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Sorry Matt, looking closely over what you've written I'm not sure I've got much more to offer.
A couple more thoughts though... You've measured turbo boost. Assume that this is measured from the standard location - the T piece at the bottom right of the turbo housing? Someone more experienced than me might confirm this, but I thought a 300Tdi was supposed to be generating about 1bar of boost. So 0.5 would be low. Also (my fault) I should have used the correct terms. What I called a vacuum hose is actually the 'fuel advance pipe'. That's the one you're saying is new? You're happy the joints at both ends are airtight, and that the pipe isn't holed or blocked? It wasn't 'new, old stock' which might have been kicking about somewhere? If I understand you correctly you're also saying that things weren't wonderful before, but they've got worse since you changed the boost pin? At very least, having put the old pin back,you should be back where you started - which does still suggest to me that there's something going on with the diaphragm and fuel advance. Or, that something has been distrurbed within the injection pump. What's the mileage/history? On the overall issue of sluggishness, do you know if the injection pump timing is OK? I've seen this done,though not done it myself, where a small tweak of the pump via the inspection port(?) makes a bit of difference to pick up/acceleration. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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16th May 2019 9:45pm |
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| Wildrover66 Member Since: 25 Apr 2018 Location: Kildare Posts: 52
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Donald
Car has 127k on the clock, agreed all of the hoses could be a cause of low powerbut all inspected and appear and test ok I had 1 bar of boost but with current issue cant get there Nothing explains the lack of throttle response on initial start as nothing touched based on what I have researched could or should have affected the throttle response The timing is a good call and will check that next |
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16th May 2019 10:29pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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well, 127k is nothing for a 300tdi in normal circumstances. Mine's on its original and un-touched pump at 230k, though it's likely a little worn.
However, that said, think I'm only helping to confirm what you said in your original post, that the pump itself needs to be suspect. I wonder if the car was ever run on sub-standard fuel which might have affected the pump innards? Maybe the work you've done has just disturbed something which was already there? Sorry - I'm at the edge of my knowledge and experience. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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16th May 2019 11:03pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8051 
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i have read all the above but dont quite follow the comments of it takes a minute after pushing accelerator for engine revs to change.
do you mean you push and hold the accelerator down and for 1min nothing happens then with it still held down it starts to build revs after a minute? Or you push the accelerator down and release and a min later it revs. 60s is a long delay for anything. Is that actuated from pedal or on top of FiP? the pin/diaphragm are boost related they dont change the initial engine revs the throttle pedal does . i would be looking at the cable actuation into the pump and the mech on top of the pump. does it crank crank start or start straight away? when was timing belt done? Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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17th May 2019 7:20am |
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| Wildrover66 Member Since: 25 Apr 2018 Location: Kildare Posts: 52
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James
car starts first time on the key. There is no response, change in RPM when the throttle is depressed. Same applies when manually operating the cable from the the top of the pump. So depressing or operating the throttle by either means has no effect on the rpm but after about a minute the RPM begins to build then would appear to rev freely. Timing belt history unknown as car was sitting for the last 4 years being rebuilt so timing belt change was planned Monday and at this stage I will get the injection pump overhauled. Still frustrated though as would really like to understand the cause of no throttle response and low power |
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17th May 2019 10:56am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8051
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so after a minute it run fine and responds to throttle.
lack of fuel availability until lift pump has drawm more up? doesnt explain the start and run at idle. Give the filter a constant supply of fuel, 12v pump/swirl pot similar setup /gravity feed it take the feed from tank via lift pump to filter out of equation and see if that makes difference. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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17th May 2019 1:21pm |
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| Wildrover66 Member Since: 25 Apr 2018 Location: Kildare Posts: 52
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Hi All
just to update all on the issues I was having Well the car went in to my local independent and we agreed to send the injector pump of for overhaul. It is now back and the feedback is that there were a few issues found to do with the timing and advance, still cant reconcile how these were affected by me changing the boost pin, so this will remain a mystery. I can confirm now car is back and boost pin and boost ring in place it has plenty of go. which is all that matters now Based on driveability whilst the change is significant before and after I think there were underlying issues with the FIP before I started touching it. Thanks to those who provided feedback to my post |
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11th Jun 2019 10:54am |
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| Mariner Member Since: 03 Oct 2017 Location: Arklow Posts: 127
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Good that you got it sorted and all's well.
You live and learn  |
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11th Jun 2019 5:06pm |
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| PAT303 Member Since: 25 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Posts: 125  
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Your problem was caused by the fuel pin being stuck in the fully closed position when you removed the original boost pin.
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18th Jun 2019 12:20pm |
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| PAT303 Member Since: 25 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Posts: 125
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It is now back and the feedback is that there were a few issues found to do with the timing and advance,
How could they check the timing and advance with the pump off the engine?. |
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18th Jun 2019 12:22pm |
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| Wildrover66 Member Since: 25 Apr 2018 Location: Kildare Posts: 52
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Hi the reported issue was the internal timing was out
I didn't get any more information than that With regard to the pin it appeared to be operating as I there were Mark's in the grease As I checked it many times I ruled it out. It was very frustrating at the time |
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20th Jun 2019 10:14pm |
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