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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6298

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
/\ Laughing

sounds like the 'good old days' Thumbs Up
Post #764086 17th Mar 2019 9:38pm
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gilarion



Member Since: 05 Dec 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 5110

Wales 2007 Defender 90 Other CSW Trident Green
Opening a 'Nursery' would be classed as a commercial venture and on a private residential estate, you would have a case.
Get all your other neighbors to sign a petition then contact the planning office and state yours and your neighbor's case.
Should a meeting be held by the planners then make sure you and as many of your neighbors attend.
Good luck. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..

http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1
Post #764130 18th Mar 2019 12:47pm
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Cobstar



Member Since: 27 Aug 2010
Location: South East
Posts: 30

United Kingdom 
The last house we lived in was a new build on a modern estate. It came with a long list of restrictive covenants including restrictions on parking on roadways and running a business from the property. Despite objections a neighbour got permission to run an extended child minding service with extra staff. The planners said they did not have to take into account the covenants!
Post #764137 18th Mar 2019 1:19pm
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OsloBlue



Member Since: 14 Jul 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 822

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue
Gil & cob,

I believe there are all sorts of allowances in place for nurseries due to a shortage of places.

Yet nurseries charge a small fortune. A colleague of mine spent something like £15000 a year on his daughter, at a big standard nursery. For that price I would have got an au pair, who could speak a couple of different languages. I'm on IG: https://www.instagram.com/osloblue42/
Current: TD5 '110 "Lucinda" Thread here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62562.html
Post #764141 18th Mar 2019 1:38pm
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Cobstar



Member Since: 27 Aug 2010
Location: South East
Posts: 30

United Kingdom 
I think you’re right there OsloBlue. There’s a real shortage of appropriate nursery and childcare provision. All the letters of support were from service users who didn’t live on the development.

Personally I had no objection to the proposal as such, just the obstruction caused by parents parking on the roadway rather than on drive or agreed car parking areas. Problem exarcebated by a special school on main drag where taxis provided the main transport.
Post #764142 18th Mar 2019 1:49pm
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andydef90



Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 617

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey
there is a number limit on how many children can be in a building my school has the largest in the area and the floor space is more than a average house and we can have 40 . plus regulations state it must be fit for purpose and appropriate for the area ie in agreement with the local residents . hope this helped
Post #764148 18th Mar 2019 2:11pm
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VVS210



Member Since: 12 Nov 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 953

United Kingdom 
Cobstar wrote:
The last house we lived in was a new build on a modern estate. It came with a long list of restrictive covenants including restrictions on parking on roadways and running a business from the property. Despite objections a neighbour got permission to run an extended child minding service with extra staff. The planners said they did not have to take into account the covenants!


Correct, planning law does not have to take into consideration issues such as covenants on the use of land or property, that is a civil matter between the relevant parties - usually a freeholder & whoever owned the land before it was first built on.

Planners only take into account matters of fact & subjective opinion or hearsay have not weight. It sounds to me as if there are two lines that need to be followed, first a matter of civil action by those who have a right to use the land that has now been walled off if they have one - spend some money collectively on a letter from a solicitor to the new owner advising them that they are in breach of any collective agreement about use or access over the land & give them notice to remove the wall by a given date or it will be removed & they will be persued for the costs through the courts. Also worth including, if valid, a statement denying them the right of access across any land owned by you for their commercial gain - ie if they have a right to pass & repass over the land to access their residential dwelling that's fine but they do not have the right to do so to reach a business premises. A decent solicitor can check that out for you & prepare the letter.

Second thing to do is to carry out accurate surveys of existing car parking in the area & specifically on the days & at the times the nursery is going to be in operation so you have some specific evidence of the situation as it prevails at the moment. Take photos & get plans drawn up showing where parking areas are located. Be careful what plans you use as you need to have a licence to use things like OS maps but that can be included in the fee if you buy digital mapping online. After this do a search online for planning applications for nurseries (ideally locally but if not there's no harm using one in a similar urban location from another part of the country) & look for a TRANSPORT STATEMENT or TRANSPORT ASSESSMENT report - these types of reports will set out traffic generation based on criteria such as number of child places proposed, data is usually drawn from a nationally recognised database called TRICS. Word of advice here, don't copy this as they get a bit nasty about people breaching their copyright. Anyway, what you need to do is find a planning application for a nursery of similar size & make a note of the traffic generation by time of day - there's usually a table showing this. You can then refer to this particular planning application as the source of your information & explain why you think that when assessed against a background of existing parking problems the additional traffic & parking stress, which in turn means reduction in road safety for other users & especially the more vulnerable 'non-motorised users', is not acceptable & would result in a detriment to highway safety & capacity. Now, if you've not fallen asleep reading this yet, the next stage is to find the councils adopted local plan & look for the transport policies - in these you will find one or more that say development shall only be permitted if it will not be detrimental to highway safety, or similar words. When you find it include a reference to it in your objection - ie when you say the combination of 50 parents in cars turning up to drop their kid off on the way to work, parking on pavements or blocking road crossings at the same time as children are walking to school is dangerous add that it is also contrary to council policy & quote not only the policy number but also paraphrase from it.

Lobby your local councillors too - after all it's you that elect them & let them know you expect them to be on your side.

Last bit of advice, don't get emotional about it all. I know it's difficult not to, but your argument will work best if it is factual & accurate rather than emotive & making you al, sound like NIMBYs.

good luck Thumbs Up
Post #764179 18th Mar 2019 6:13pm
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Cobstar



Member Since: 27 Aug 2010
Location: South East
Posts: 30

United Kingdom 
Thank you VVS210 - that’s very informative.

We moved away 18 months ago since when a resident-led management committee have taken over areas not falling to Highways or local authority. Previously the developer ran the management company and wasn’t interested in enforcing covenants. We deliberately bought the current house as there were only a couple of minor restrictions.
Post #764183 18th Mar 2019 6:39pm
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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6298

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Cobstar wrote:
The last house we lived in was a new build on a modern estate. It came with a long list of restrictive covenants including restrictions on parking on roadways and running a business from the property. Despite objections a neighbour got permission to run an extended child minding service with extra staff. The planners said they did not have to take into account the covenants!


isn't that just great. don't need to take into account covenants.....that's a real Censored in my opinion.
Post #764205 18th Mar 2019 8:25pm
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Retroanaconda



Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2640

Scotland 
Why would the planning authority have any need or duty to enforce covenants in title deeds?

Completely separate legal processes Rolling Eyes
Post #764229 18th Mar 2019 10:01pm
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Cobstar



Member Since: 27 Aug 2010
Location: South East
Posts: 30

United Kingdom 
At the time I was surprised the planning department did not have to take into account the fact that running a business contravened restrictive covenants on the property. I wasn’t expecting them to enforce the covenants but it did seem they were frustrating the covenants.

But the explanation from the planning department and VVS210’s detailed explanation have clarified the position.
Post #764232 18th Mar 2019 10:13pm
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