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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1841  
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Tried doing a search, but it doesn't seem to be working for me today. (I get a page saying something about unacceptable response...)
The other day, after a long run where I was hearing a howling noise, I cracked open the filler plug on the rear diff. What came out was yellowish, with maybe tiny metal flakes in it. That is a 'maybe' - it could have been picking something glittery from the diff pan - or that could be wishful thinking... So, it's over-filled with something, which doesn't look nice. I'm assuming some sort of water ingress, but I can't think where. The diff pinion seal looks to be intact. It's completely dry around about there. There's no sign of any leakage through the wheel bearings. Next thing to check will be the breather pipes. That's on today's job list. When I drain the old oil later, I will post a pic. But, assuming I can find and fix any place where water might be getting in, what then. Do I just fill the diff with new oil? Do I need to pull it out and clean off? Should I fill it with oil, run it for a short while, then drain and refill. Is there any kind of flushing fluid I could use? Longer term, I think the answer is definitely to pull it out and fix or replace. (Drooling over some Ashcroft options) But as this is my daily driver, I need something now to 'do the job' until I'm ready for a proper fix. Any thoughts or suggestions? Ta. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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23rd Feb 2019 9:56am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324 
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I'd refill with the correct oil, run for a few miles (10, 20?) and then change the oil again. I'd also fit a magnetic drain plug, too. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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23rd Feb 2019 10:16am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1841
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Thanks guys.
I'm afraid I don't know how long the oil's been there. It won't be too long. Maybe a year and a half/5 to 10k miles. I will have the paperwork somewhere, but as usual I'd need to dig it out.... I'll see what happens with the drain plug - for all I know it could be magnetic anyway. If not, that's on the shopping list. Like I say, I'll post pics of what comes out. Off down to buy some oil now Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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23rd Feb 2019 10:36am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17305 
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It may have drawn water in through the breather, quite a common problem.
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23rd Feb 2019 11:33am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1841
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Interesting times, interesting times! I can tell this is going to be another 'school day'.
So here's what came out of both diffs -couldn't be more different! The black stuff is the front - and it's as black as it looks; the salad dressing is from the rear diff.  Click image to enlarge If I'm reading the WSManual properly, each diff should have 1.7L of oil in it.... I haven't measured this yet, because I'd get filthy dirty, but it looks like a lot more than 1.7L in both cases. So my thoughts.... Rear axle is taking in water somehow. There is definitely nothing getting out, as far as I can see. Even overfilled with all this stuff in it, the seals are good. Guessing the casing would have to be cracked or punctured somehow. I think this is unlikely because it doesn't get that sort of use, and it was a brand new/take off about 5 years ago. Front axle - does it look like it's just simply been over-filled, or have the swivels leaked into there? If they have, is that a 'swivels off'/replace seals job? Could I just add more grease in there; top up the axle and use it temporarily. Rear axle breather. This is a relatively short hose - terminates up in the chassis X-member that supports the forward ends of the rear A frame. It has this fitting on the axle end. Click image to enlarge What is this? It reminds me of one of those 'Snap!/Oh-  !' fittings..... I was expecting to see a banjo bolt and washers. Because I don't know what to do with this, I haven't taken the breather pipe off to check if it's cracked/leaking.
The diff casing has these holes in it - but as far as I can see they are irrelevant - they don't seem to go all the way through.. Click image to enlarge So, having seen all that, what do you guys think? Ta Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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23rd Feb 2019 12:44pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1841
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Ok, so some further digging about the web suggests this is what I have on the rear axle...
and that to remove the pipe from this, it I just need to push the red collar down into the brass fitting. I'll try that shortly. On the one hand, it seems to me like quite a poor thing to have, instead of the threaded banjo nut, but I guess it's standard fitting on newer Defenders. Does it not cause problems at all? Are you supposed to remove/lever out the brass bit and check it's sealed into the axle casing? On the other hand, if that's all it is, and I can't replace it with anything better, then I guess I just take it off, check that it's working and stick it back in again. At that point I'm completely stumped about where any water could be getting into the rear axle. Assuming that's the issue. Does that oil in the pic above look like 'water ingress'? Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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23rd Feb 2019 1:45pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3639 
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Yes rear looks like water ingress, I would suspect the breather rather than anything else. a lot of front axles have black oil in them, it is just some of the swivel grease passing the seal, I wouldn't worry about that too much it wont hurt, start to worry when oil starts to come out of the swivel seals DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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23rd Feb 2019 2:03pm |
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2400  
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Those swivel-to-diff seals are really loose allowing grease to migrate to the diff. Puma 110" SW
............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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23rd Feb 2019 2:29pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1841
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Well, that's the oil changed in both diffs. Can't take it for a run at the moment, but I bought enough oil to drain and refill again in the near future.
There was about 2.5L of oil in both diffs. I got the rear breather pipe out of the fitting OK, and it's not blocked - but I definitely wouldn't bet the mortgage on those fittings keeping water out. I see that Gwyn Lewis does replacements for these axles, which involve tapping a thread into the casing. I'll be dropping some £ on those very shortly. Changing the diff oil was a job I'd never done personally before, always left it to the garage, but once done, I wonder why I didn't. Nothing to it. However....
Have you got the 'second sight'? While lying under the car and looking about, I noticed that on the NS, the outer swivel seals are actually leaking, and the seal retaining plate looks very, extremely fragile. I'd noticed some early pitting on one of the swivels, and was planning to do a refresh of the hub assembly. Looks like that's going to get done sooner than I thought. Thanks for all the advice and comments. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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23rd Feb 2019 5:48pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20263
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I had some water get in my rear axle when I had the pinion oil seal go, to the best of my knowledge the breather wasn't the issue on mine.
But I presume you have no pinion oil seal leaking? Looks lime you've caught it just in time, and the rear on yours is very bad far worse than mine was and it does go like mayo. As mentioned though, the Diffs are pretty tough and you should be okay. Some of the water can migrate up around the half shafts too, but there is little way of flushing it except for as has been mentioned change diff oil. Leave a few hundred miles then drain abd replace again. Reminds me, I might do the same on mine too as it was much the same scenario only much less water than you experienced.  |
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23rd Feb 2019 5:49pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1841
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Hey Steve, no the pinion looks dry as a bone. And as I said, no sign of anything leaking at the hubs either. I'll sort the breather with Gwyn's kit and see where it goes from there. Donald
1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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23rd Feb 2019 5:59pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17305
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Water ingress through the crappy breather into the rear axle cost me an ATB. Not happy!
A Gwyn Lewis breather upgrade is the way to go |
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23rd Feb 2019 8:49pm |
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