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JOW240725

Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7906

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

Thanks for the information Dave, kind of you to share.

James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html
MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641
MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557
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31st Jan 2019 8:53am

BogMonster

Member Since: 05 Feb 2008
Location: Stanley
Posts: 400

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

blackwolf wrote:
Perhaps there's really not much difference between any of them. The MT82 in my Puma is a vastly nicer box to drive than the R380 in my Td5 Disco (possibly the least pleasant box I've owned in over 40 years). Both have done similar mileages (well over 200k miles) and the MT82 is still smooth and quiet but the R380 randomly sounds like a coffee grinder.

I guess there are good and bad examples of both, and we're all prone to judge from our own experiences. Personally I'd sooner have an MT82 than an R380 anyday.

There certainly are, and I am convinced that a lot of the perceived gearbox quality is driven by other factors such as the backlash in the rest of the transmission, which upsets the syncros in the gearbox. I've proven in the past that a defective component down the line (collapsing front diff centre is the favourite) will absolutely destroy gearchange quality on an R380, I presume it's because there is 'bounce' in the system with all the slack.

It's probably the reason why the MT82 (which I assume is what is fitted in the Transit and Ranger installations) is fine in those cars but more often than not has a lousy gearchange in the Defender. ---
2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi

31st Jan 2019 10:08am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17387

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

I completely agree with you, BogMonster. Not only can other transmission faults make the driving experience unpleasant and be mistaken for gearbox problems, but I believe that they can often become the cause of other dependent faults. In particular the clutch (along with the cumulative driveline backlash) greatly affects the perceived behaviour of the gearbox. Once the damping springs compress, everything becomes more harsh and less pleasant, and I think that this exacerbates gearbox faults and adaptor shaft failures.

I also believe that the mechanical sympathy that the driver possesses makes a very big difference. I don't mean that you have to drive like a vicar, but you need to understand what is going on all the time with the vehicle and be sensitive to what it is telling you.

It would possibly help if the driving test included a section where you had to drive a vehicle without synchromesh and whilst doing so demonstrate that you can change gear smoothly and quietly without using the clutch. If you can do this, then you genuinely know how to change gear (but it would take an awful lot of people off the road)!

31st Jan 2019 10:51am

PAT303

Member Since: 25 Feb 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 125

1998 Defender 110 300 Tdi SW Alpine White

Just to give a bit of balance, we all hear how Toyota's are better vehicles but I've had five of them, the only difference between LR and Toyota gearbox's is that Toyota's are 5 times more exxy to fix. Unfortunately things break, I'd rather LR spend extra money on the clutch and adapter personally.

31st Jan 2019 11:35am

MartinK

Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2665

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey

Quote:
I also believe that the mechanical sympathy that the driver possesses makes a very big difference. I don't mean that you have to drive like a vicar, but you need to understand what is going on all the time with the vehicle and be sensitive to what it is telling you.

Also, drivers with mechanical sympathy may be more prone to frequent oil changes... I wonder if regular maintenance with top quality oils can contribute to longevity...? Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)

31st Jan 2019 8:40pm

MK

Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2416

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White

My other 4x4 vehicle requires gearbox oil change every 30kkm. Same oil specs: PAO 75W-90 GL4 Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

31st Jan 2019 9:57pm

ashtrans
Site Sponsor

Member Since: 08 Nov 2008
Location: Harpenden
Posts: 257

Hi,

I mentioned earlier one problem we see are damaged casings from props letting go, this one must of made some noise !!

Dave

1st Feb 2019 11:22am

MK

Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2416

I have seen that case as well from a brand new 130 used by a mining company. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

1st Feb 2019 11:25am

ashtrans
Site Sponsor

Member Since: 08 Nov 2008
Location: Harpenden
Posts: 257

another one on the bench today, we have seen this a few times before, the 3rd gear is made in 2 parts and electron beam welded together, the weld breaks and you loose drive in 3rd, selects fine but you lift the clutch and no drive :

Dave

1st Feb 2019 3:51pm

MartinK

Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2665

Dave (ashtrans) - I really hope you guys manage to sort-out the gearbox, so when mine's due replacement/refurb, I can get a wonderful "HD" one from you guys with some of these problems sorted out

Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)

1st Feb 2019 4:05pm

BogMonster

Member Since: 05 Feb 2008
Location: Stanley
Posts: 400

ashtrans wrote:
Hi,

I mentioned earlier one problem we see are damaged casings from props letting go, this one must of made some noise !!

Ouch ... I bet! Do you refund the core charge pro-rata depending on what weight of gearbox is left?

I remember a vehicle coming in to our workshop years ago, didn't look like that but the prop UJ had let go at about 50mph and the driver's footwell was touching the bottom of the pedals. ---
2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi

2nd Feb 2019 9:24am

Phantom

Member Since: 29 Jan 2013
Location: Isle of Wight
Posts: 136

blackwolf wrote:
^^^ A rather extreme conclusion, perhaps! In most respects the Puma is the best Defender of them all.

I run a independent LR specialist workshop, having owned and repaired pretty much every defender variant going I’d always personally choose a Tdi or td5 over a tdci - every time. We see more mechanical issues with the pumas than all the other defenders put together.

2nd Feb 2019 10:45pm

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