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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5035   
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Bigmike - im with all of what you said
Leeds - again some great points I was aware he worked for Stratstone from an earlier post - leeds thanks for finding it. Basically for me, what makes a good dealer, is the reverse of the list against stratstone! I have expereinced 3 sides of 2 different "Guy Salmon" dealers (sales, parts and warranty) on a vehicle supplied and vehicles not supplied and they have to date got it. They havent always been perfect, who is and im not expecting perfection - but they have been 98% better in all areas. The only place Guy Salmon let themselves down was with the selector on its 2nd (the second because stratstone broke it and let me drive off the forecourt only for the gear stick to come away in my hand changing to 2nd on the main road...which is also as bad as not shutting the bonnet properly, knowing i went home on the motorway) - anyway i digress, the stratstone DP/Service Manager actually new the proper fix and how to do it before any service bulletin and fixed it. Great job i hear you say, fully technical competence, so why didnt you continue to use them? 2 weeks later they were sacked! Its not hard to be customer focused, £20k, £30k or £62k - its a serious amount of money on a serious bit of kit! Mike |
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12th Jun 2011 9:33am |
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| pom Member Since: 01 Jun 2010 Location: Worcester Posts: 1343 |
brendan easy on the workers, that's a lot of sackings!
Remember none of them are working in isolation they take their lead from their manager. So if they are led to believe that panel gaps for example are not a problem they are not going to keep bringing it up ? They wont take any action because they don't have to, they don't care about defender's only rolling the 50k+ disco's and RR as commission is king. Pom |
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12th Jun 2011 9:35am |
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| haworthj Member Since: 01 Nov 2010 Location: Sussex Posts: 178
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I too, bought my truck from Harwoods in Edenbridge. Both the sales team, and since then, the service team have been nothing but exceptional, if a little steep in price.
I'd definitely buy from them again. |
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12th Jun 2011 11:09am |
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| JASPERTHEHORSE Member Since: 29 Apr 2011 Location: Durham Posts: 49 
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Stupid? Thanks for that. Reason I want to know this is very simple, for everyones benefit by the way, because I want to make my Dealership the best I can, certainly from a sales side. By the way LEEDS, reason I asked about peoples experiences with Puma over TD5 is that Ive recently just returned to Land Rover in Jan 2011 having left in 2006 around Freelander 2 Launch. Incidentally I was one of the top ten sales executives in the United Kingom at the time, in terms of number of sales and customer satisfaction. Ive asked a lot of customers in my place about Puma as well and got some really bad feedback with a lot bemoaning the passing of TD5 and then some who reckon its the best defender ever built. It doesnt and indeed hasnt put me off with a new puma on order.Oh, whilst Im on...... If you knew me you would know that Ive featured in LRO magazine after spending a year restoring a Classic "In Vogue" Rangie and my first Landie was when I was 14, a knackered old S2A SWB which me and my grandfather restored. So yeah I reckon Im a bit of a landy fan. I find this all very interesting. Undoubtedly many dealers drop the ball on occasion in several areas but in my experience this just isnt unique in Land Rover world. I think irrespective of the brand its customer service thats the core issue. I really find the addressing someone as "sir" interesting. I think thats potentially patronising and Surely Mr or Mrs is better until given permission to use first names? Believe me fellas, in this day and age industry is completely coin operated and efficiency managed. Yes it would be great if technicians could spend longer on cars doing waxoyl, but in truth shouldnt that be done at manufacture stage?? I believe that mediocrity has no defence and I currently have a very strong CSI rating in the Land Rover network but I actually suspect Im rather lucky as 60% of my sales team are good solid Landy enthusiasts and amazingly they are able to talk at length about the brand with true passion. I picked a snippet up on one reply about a salesman selling a VW one week then a Landy the next. Sadly that is just the way the motor retail industry is. Until an exec finds a dealership/brand/pay plan that works for them they do tend to be transient. Personally I find Land Rover very easy to sell. From reading this thread it seems 70% of gripes and issues are with the service side and this always saddens me as I feel the sales side is always handled well at my place. It really is a shame when this happens, believe me when I say theres nothing worse as a sales exec having the conversation with a customer whom youve built up a great relationship with when he or she is in service with a duff car. On the other side I also understand that the service guys sometimes are nearly driven to tears when we get a car thats faulting and they just cant seem to find, diagnose or remedy no matter what they do. Nonetheless, interesting comments but please dont question if Im stupid, I find that just a touch on the offensive side to be honest. |
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12th Jun 2011 3:41pm |
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| JASPERTHEHORSE Member Since: 29 Apr 2011 Location: Durham Posts: 49
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Im at a loss mate? Why the question marks on corroded fuel filter? Our XS TD5 fluffed once when the superbly positioned fuel filter on the chassis rail at the ROS corroded thru resulting in leaking diesel and loss of pressure in the system. Whilst Im on... My reason for this post? Truth? To take the comments, bundle them into a coaching session and present to my sales team. I have a vision of delivering a world class retail experience and this sort of stuff will be a massive aid to delivering that at my dealership. Guys you have to believe me when I say this, its so, so hard sourcing and retaining top level sales execs. Combining that with a real and true passion for the product they are selling just adds another dimension of difficulty. |
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12th Jun 2011 4:31pm |
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| JASPERTHEHORSE Member Since: 29 Apr 2011 Location: Durham Posts: 49
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12th Jun 2011 4:58pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8580
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Tony,
In my defence I said you must be brave or stupid. You stated that you were a Land Rover fanatic and general sales manager of a major LR dealership. You forgot to add that you had only been one for a few months. Why ???? after corroded fuel filter. Surely the condition of it should have been noticed during regular servicing? I am a strong believer in preventative maintainance. Now I am not a mechanic and I do not pretend to be one. However I do know some good mechanics. Note I use the word mechanic rather then a technican. A major West Yorkshire dealership only sells 50 Defenders a year out of about 5,000 Land Rovers and most of their staff are not Land Rover fanatics. How do I know? From the general area manager who's mobile number I have because of the attitude of sales staff/reception staff. The next addition to our Land Rover fleet is likely to be a Discovery commercial and I will more then likely get it sourced by a local indie dealer that I trust. Their again I might well turn up in my 'scruffs' and see if attitude of the local dealership staff has changed PDI? You may argue that it is a safety check. I would argue that it is a check to ensure that the vehicle is in a suitable condition to hand over to the customer. Misaligned doors/panels are NOT acceptable and a vehicle should not be presented to a customer in that condition. Yes it is a factory problem but it is made worse by dealerships not accepting the vehicle in that condition. If your dealership is prepared to perpetuate the myth that 'It is a Land Rover/Defender what do you expect' then I for one am not willing to accept that situation. Would you accept a customer paying for a vehicle with 80% good pound notes and 20% dodgy notes? If not I for one am not willing to accept a Land Rover which is not made to decent standard. Remember the customers contract is with the dealer and not Land Rover themselves. It is the dealers responsibility to ensure that the vehicle is in good state and the dealer should kick Land Rovers backside if build quality is not acceptable BEFORE it is seen by the customer. Every company/trader etc has problems. It is how the problem is resolved that is the mark of a good/bad company. A satisfied customer tells so many people, a dissatisfied customer tells even more. If you can get your staff to appreciate Land Rovers and their owners you will be a long way to having a satisfied customer base and good luck with educating your staff. Some staff really do need it. Local sales staff did not understand why on buying a brand new 110 it had rock and tree sliders on and he had no idea why and what they were for even. A good way to get satisfied Defender customers is to allow them to talk to the mechanics. Brendan |
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12th Jun 2011 5:57pm |
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| BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253
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Brendan I think you're a bit out of order in your responses to be honest. This guy has told us who he is and invited opinions. To call him "stupid" is unneccessary and offensive I think. Here is an opportunity for all of us to share our feelings and experiences with someone who can potentially change the way things are (at least at his dealership). Don't waste that by throwing insults around, it does none of us any favours and we are trying to be constructive here.
Jasper/Tony, I could tell you lots of stories about how I and friends have been treated by different dealerships, particularly in terms of the first impression (ie dressed fairly scruffily yet there to buy a new defender or disco or RR) and more stories about a failure to address technical issues in the correct way, poor communication, all kinds of things, and if you want that then that's fine, i'll say so. My question to you is - why are you not asking us what we want as buyers? Surely that is the question for you to be asking. This is free market research after all. |
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12th Jun 2011 6:00pm |
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| JASPERTHEHORSE Member Since: 29 Apr 2011 Location: Durham Posts: 49
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12th Jun 2011 6:32pm |
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| Glynparry25 Member Since: 16 Feb 2009 Location: Miserable Midlands Posts: 3015  
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This is where Ripon Land Rover have the right idea. They would quite happily invite the mechanic through to have a chat if needed, and if asked they will also print out all the job cards for the work done (Ripon started doing it as standard for me after asking the first 2 times). Glyn   |
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12th Jun 2011 6:39pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8580
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Mike, I did say
This was not meant to be insulting and I hope Tony will accept my apology. He has stepped into the lions den by asking the questions hence my comment. The second comment is more important. It appears that Tony is taking the comments on board and WILL take action. Good luck to him on that score. Defender owners in general are probably more loyal to the Land Rover brand and are more likely to use their vehicles in the real 4x4 sense then other vehicle owners. Now if Tony can make a change in the attitude of the sales/reception/mechanics then good luck to him. I personally can not accept In 2011 the attitude that poor build quality in Defenders is still acceptable. A suggestion to Tony, why not get some local Defender owners along to your coaching session and get them to explain what they would like from the dealership. They could take their Defenders along and explain to your staff why they have either kept their vehicle standard or more likely why they have modified their vehicle to their individual needs. i.e.get the customers viewpoint rather then a management view. HTH Btrendan |
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12th Jun 2011 6:57pm |
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| v40mav Member Since: 25 Aug 2008 Location: UK Posts: 206 
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Firstly well done for coming on here and at least trying to cover some of the points, however the above comment is so far fetched that is just pure classroom talk. I have worked in the Retail Sales / Finance industry for the last 25 years and as an Area Manager, so I know all the talk the talk for the sales and wanting to be the best - ( Oh and before you criticise / comment - I was very successful and won many awards -) There is no secret to this - it's all about putting one person first = THE CUSTOMER, and ensuring that all who are involved in the business do the same - There is no point trying to be the best sales force if the service is crap - THEY BOTH GO HAND IN HAND - and that is where Land Rover let themselves down - big time - You can have the best salesman getting you the business but if the back up is not there then the next time people will walk, Like many on here I have more than one vehicle - many more than one Land Rover - I have a D3 and the Defender - as well as an old P38 - It's all about the personal touch when you walk in to the showroom - I do not want to be called Sir I want to be referred to as "Morning Mr ******* or even my first name " The salesman who sold me my D2 then my D3 knows me as does the service guys - but they are still let down by the back room teams - Like was mentioned before If they say they will phone you in an hour - then bloody do so - we are all busy - but there is nothing worse than saying you will call someone back and not doing so - that just causes frustration and leads to problems, I always ensured staff called when they said or before even if it was to agree a later call. Talk to your customers.
Sorry but that is just typical comments from a dealer - It may be a factory issue but as the front face of the product you are selling you need to take ownership and start to change this from within - As a customer I don't care who is responsible - when I pick up my vehicle I want it to be spot on and evident that someone who has prepared this has done the job properly - done the checks as they would expect them to be done - and you know what if that means the dealers need to spend more than the allotted 1hr then then should do so - Here is an example of service that is what I'd expect - I wonder how many other dealers would have done the same -. We have just returned from a week in the dales - having had both cars Defender & disco3 down - On Thursday I started getting a squealing from the rear nearside brake, it appeared to be binding on and you could feel it pulling, as my other half would be driving the D3 with my parents in back home on Saturday- i did not want to leave it as it was without getting it checked - . as we were near Settle - I popped into the LR Ribblesdale late pm - and explained the issue and asked if anyone would be available to check out the issue - The receptionist ( who explained she had only been there a short time - went to get the head mechanic who came over had a look and took it for a test drive- Without stripping it down he could not be sure but thought it would just need freed / cleaned but the calliper may be seized. He explained that he could not sort there and then but could fit it in the next morning for me- I agreed and went in to book it in - I could see from the diary that there was no / little spare time with all other jobs booked. Not to worry - we will sort that and all jobs will get done - can you be here first thing - Sure enough I was there for opening and after about 1 hr car was returned - stripped cleaned and put back together - NO NEW parts needed - I questioned - Nope - the pads etc are still good for another 5-6K, discs are okay - I was well chuffed at the service - fitting me in when diary was full - not replacing parts that were not needed - Mmm - perhaps there are some customer friendly and genuine dealers out there. At the end of the day _ i felt that I had received the service I expected - and would happily co-ordinate servicing work to be done there again if that fitted with my diary. I'm not sure all dealers would have dealt with this the same way - !! Sales & Service go hand in hand and unless the dealers start to get the whole package right - you will find more and more work going to the independents - Defender 110 County SW Disco 3 HSE Freelander 2 HSE - SOLD going back to a car www.lothian4x4response.org |
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12th Jun 2011 7:05pm |
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| pom Member Since: 01 Jun 2010 Location: Worcester Posts: 1343 |
Interesting replies!
I think the part you are not quite grasping is the sales side is not as important to us as the service side. Couple of reasons, we see the sales once if at all so if your crap it's a one time warcrime no biggie. With service we see them over and over we have no choice. Certainly for me if your service dept sucks there is not a chance in hell I will be buying from you even if your customer service score is 200%. As you mentioned they are hand built so will have more service issues even more reason to have an on the ball service manager. Perhaps it would be more meaningful to you to use the service score of your service dept as a starting point, your service manager has more power in winning or losing you future sales than any salesman in my opinion. Pom |
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13th Jun 2011 6:36am |
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| pom Member Since: 01 Jun 2010 Location: Worcester Posts: 1343 |
Oh forgot to add - seeing the mechanic who worked on the vehicle is standard practice at Audi, they also wear head cams so you can watch them work. Hope the signal doesn't reach the bog though...
Pom |
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13th Jun 2011 6:42am |
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