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roddyfox



Member Since: 14 Mar 2017
Location: Kenton-on-Sea
Posts: 10
South Africa 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Santorini Black
Hole In Piston
Unfortunately my 2013 Defender 110 2.2 TDCi has suffered a severe breakdown with a hole in piston number 1 (as shown in photo) only six weeks out of its extended warranty and having done just 40 750 miles (65 200km). The vehicle has a full main dealer Land Rover service history. Has anyone any idea what may have caused this to happen please Question Thanks.

Click image to enlarge
Post #752669 20th Jan 2019 7:16pm
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RAMBIRKETT



Member Since: 17 Sep 2013
Location: aberdeenshire
Posts: 2
United Kingdom 1993 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Coniston Green
Hi Roddy Roddyfox. I had a similar problem, and it was diagnosed as injector failure (over fuelling melting a hole through the piston).
Post #752676 20th Jan 2019 7:30pm
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lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 1317
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
Ouch!! Not good.

Hopefully a discussion with JLR may lead to some form of compensation/resolution.
Especially given the low mileage and the service history, etc.

Let us know how you get on.
Post #752690 20th Jan 2019 8:46pm
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Big Harold



Member Since: 09 Jul 2018
Location: nsw
Posts: 71
Australia 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Alpine White
Re: Hole In Piston
roddyfox wrote:
Unfortunately my 2013 Defender 110 2.2 TDCi has suffered a severe breakdown with a hole in piston number 1 (as shown in photo) only six weeks out of its extended warranty and having done just 40 750 miles (65 200km). The vehicle has a full main dealer Land Rover service history. Has anyone any idea what may have caused this to happen please Question Thanks.

Click image to enlarge

I have a 2012 with the same problem #4 piston.
There is a well documented piston issue with these engines in Transit Vans however Land Rover will not tell you that.
You can try for Warranty I told them to Get F----D and bought a rebuild kit including 4 new pistons.
You can buy just one piston and a sleeve if it has damaged the bore.
Just depends how much you like the car. I know people in similar circumstance have just replaced on piston then sold vehicle.
Good Luck
Mark
Post #752694 20th Jan 2019 9:02pm
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roddyfox



Member Since: 14 Mar 2017
Location: Kenton-on-Sea
Posts: 10
South Africa 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Santorini Black
Many thanks guys for your responses. All JLR are prepared to do is give me 10% off a new engine only, not labour, if I purchase it & have it fitted through them - all at an astronomical price, this after they have already charged me for taking the cylinder head off. Apparently they have had the injectors tested independently & they were found to be 'within parameters'. Will keep you posted as to how I proceed. Crying or Very sad
Post #752746 21st Jan 2019 10:21am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17387
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I guess that JLR's view is that the piston was just exercising its right to freedom of expression by developing a hole.

Shocking! Shocked
Post #752766 21st Jan 2019 11:32am
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HK07



Member Since: 15 Dec 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 746
England 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Cairns Blue
This has just happened to a friend's 2.2 @ around 60k miles, LR/Indy FSH.

It's really worrying as two other friends have had to have new engines, one 2.2 @ 80k, and one 2.4 @ 125k, again both had Indy FSH.

Does anyone know exactly what causes it and is there something that can be done / changed to avoid it?

Is it more prevalent in either 2.2s or the 2.4s?

Any information or advice much appreciated.

Many thanks.

A paranoid 2.4 owning HK07. 2007 90 Puma - Love it - Best car I have ever owned.

1989 Ninety 200tdi - Love it - Second best car I have ever owned.

1951 80" Series 1 - Love it - Third best car I have ever owned.
Post #881240 27th Jan 2021 8:41am
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lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 1317
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
As mentioned above, a hole in a piston is usually caused by a faulty injector. It would be worth getting the injector professionally tested to see if it is dribbling or not working correctly. Out of interest were any of the engines with failures running with uprated performance maps or other inlet modifications?
Post #881254 27th Jan 2021 9:46am
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discomog



Member Since: 09 May 2015
Location: Notts/Lincs Border
Posts: 2527
United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
Lohr500 - you beat me to it. I'd like to know if these were remapped engines or bog standard. Defender 90XS SW
Mini Countryman Cooper S
Morgan Plus 8
Post #881282 27th Jan 2021 11:31am
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HK07



Member Since: 15 Dec 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 746
England 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Cairns Blue
I don't know forsure, but my guess would be yes on all 3.

I bought mine when it was 18 months old, how would I know if it's been remapped? Its has good performance for a vehicle like that but it's not outstanding.

I will get my injectors tested, any advice on that? I guess they want numbering before they are removed so they go back from wence they came.

I wonder the percentages of Defenders v Transits that have been remapped, and how much does this problem present itself in Transits?

Many thanks for the input.

HK07 2007 90 Puma - Love it - Best car I have ever owned.

1989 Ninety 200tdi - Love it - Second best car I have ever owned.

1951 80" Series 1 - Love it - Third best car I have ever owned.
Post #881290 27th Jan 2021 12:18pm
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lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 1317
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
I never had to do anything with my 2.2 Puma injectors, but I'm sure I read something about needing diagnostics to assign injectors to the ECU and possibly to run some sort of learning cycle. This may only apply to new injectors that haven't already been coded to the ECU. Hopefully someone in the know on the forum will chip in with more info. Likewise on how to tell if the ECU has been remapped.

I worry that a poor remap could cause overfueling and this leads to piston holing. An excessive increase in engine loading from too much of a remap could also result in localised piston overheating.
Post #881328 27th Jan 2021 3:38pm
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 484
France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
Re: Hole In Piston
[quote="Big Harold"]
roddyfox wrote:
.
There is a well documented piston issue with these engines in Transit Vans however Land Rover will not tell you that.
You can try for Warranty I told them to Get F----D and bought a rebuild kit including 4 new pistons.


The 2.2 tdci engine in the Ford Transit was equiped with magnetic injectors. It's EU4
And that failure mode is mostly related to camper vans : highly charged vehicles
But anyhow : such an engine should last 150 000 kms without any issues.
Transit vans have a 50000 km service interval. An engine should survive two oil changes at least (my thoughts)
https://garage.wiki/ford/transit-van/fourt...rvals.html

Mine has no injector issues and 100 000 kms on the clock

I confirm your experience with that Land Rover warranty hotline you're supposed to deal with.
They are just commercials with an excellent training in psychologics. you'll havé to develop à strategy
Their technical competence is worser than a housewive's one. Don't count on them understanding anything.
Zero success while dealing on the failure of my adaptor shaft

P.S. Even housewives do understand that a greased part needs maintenance (with grease) and should therefore be accessible!
Post #881430 27th Jan 2021 8:21pm
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derbywill



Member Since: 25 Mar 2010
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 558
England 2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Java Black
A very common problem on Transits, normally injectors are faulty causing hot spots on the piston crown and eventually melting it like you have Crying or Very sad

Cheers

Will 2005 90 XS
1954 86'' Series 1 tilt
1968 88” 2A 200tdi
2002 110 Hardtop
Post #881540 28th Jan 2021 12:33pm
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 484
France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
These hot spots may have many reasons :

https://www.ms-motorservice.com/en/technip...nd-causes/

And one of these is the mod of combustion (tuning)
Post #881544 28th Jan 2021 1:18pm
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BenB8man



Member Since: 22 Mar 2017
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 429
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
The Piston Cooling Jets were a problem too I seem to recall?
Post #881713 29th Jan 2021 12:18pm
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