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Birdy



Member Since: 07 Oct 2011
Location: Côte d'Azur
Posts: 865
France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
“So does that mean all the locals that live in the area are having to sell their cars and buy 'better' cars?”
YES. And after some Yahoo blah blah about the poor family who can no longer ferry their six kids in the old minibus dies its death, we’ll all have to just get on with it.

“And what happens if they bring that nonsense over to the UK?”
As DSC-off pointed out, it’s already here. C’mon guys, nobody can say they didn’t see it coming. We can only hope that Local Authorities will make exemptions for older, classic vehicles. I doubt it though, which politician will want to be branded a champion of “Millionaire Bugatti owners”?. And it’s not really nonsense, spend a day in Cairo or Mexico City…

“… the end of the Internal Combustion Era… so glad I don't have kids!”
Today’s youngsters don’t give a monkeys about cars or exotica; they’re just a means of transport and a not very efficient or cheap one either. We and all the other petrol-heads are dinosaurs to them, the Clarksons and the Lenos are figures of fun. My teenage daughters wouldn’t even accept a lift in my black 4-seater Morgan in case they were spotted by their mates: “ It looks like something Cruella de Vil would drive”

Peter
Post #748919 3rd Jan 2019 4:01pm
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 484
France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
WindyJ wrote:
Interestingly my 90 has 266mg written on it’s CoC but the French registration system gave it 229mg. Not going to argue. Has a Crit air 3 sticker so mid range and still OK in Paris and Lyon at moment. Not that I ever go near those towns in the Defender.


Here in Nantes there is no zone. In Paris there's a zone (ZCR). I had to buy à sticker in order to visit my sister. I got a yellow sticker (class 2) which is the best class you can get for a diesel engine.

In France I'll be safe for many years. Not in Germany ?

I can't believe : Does Germany shut down for all diesel engines?
Post #748982 3rd Jan 2019 8:11pm
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hornet



Member Since: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 361
Birdy wrote:
[...]
“… the end of the Internal Combustion Era… so glad I don't have kids!”
Today’s youngsters don’t give a monkeys about cars or exotica; they’re just a means of transport and a not very efficient or cheap one either. We and all the other petrol-heads are dinosaurs to them, the Clarksons and the Lenos are figures of fun. My teenage daughters wouldn’t even accept a lift in my black 4-seater Morgan in case they were spotted by their mates: “ It looks like something Cruella de Vil would drive”

Peter

I don't think that it was about driving a car. It's more about the care of the future of children in view of the disturbed world. The seriousness with which politics discusses wrong numbers, measured values and unclear effects doesn't generally give good hope for the future. My two sons find it just as exhausting in the land-rover as in the 997 -- but not because of the image but because of the space... Laughing
Post #749107 4th Jan 2019 9:51am
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hornet



Member Since: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 361
[quote="Julie"]
WindyJ wrote:
[...]

I can't believe : Does Germany shut down for all diesel engines?


Source: adac.de

Good news for all affected motorists is the planned regulation that there will be no blue sticker and that in addition to Euro 6 diesel cars, particularly clean vehicles (<270 mg NOx per km) will also be exempted from driving bans - regardless of whether they are retrofitted or updated, regardless of whether they are Euro 4 or 5. Here too, the devil is still in the details: Which vehicles will actually overcome this hurdle depends on the underlying measurement method.
Post #749108 4th Jan 2019 9:55am
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WindyJ



Member Since: 18 Oct 2018
Location: France
Posts: 190
Julie wrote:
WindyJ wrote:
Interestingly my 90 has 266mg written on it’s CoC but the French registration system gave it 229mg. Not going to argue. Has a Crit air 3 sticker so mid range and still OK in Paris and Lyon at moment. Not that I ever go near those towns in the Defender.


Here in Nantes there is no zone. In Paris there's a zone (ZCR). I had to buy à sticker in order to visit my sister. I got a yellow sticker (class 2) which is the best class you can get for a diesel engine.

In France I'll be safe for many years. Not in Germany ?

I can't believe : Does Germany shut down for all diesel engines?


Must be a 2.2 with dpf?
Post #749118 4th Jan 2019 11:26am
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Wild Card 90



Member Since: 03 Dec 2014
Location: Gerlingen
Posts: 1060
England 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Indus Silver
[quote="hornet"]
Julie wrote:
WindyJ wrote:
[...]

I can't believe : Does Germany shut down for all diesel engines?


Source: adac.de

Good news for all affected motorists is the planned regulation that there will be no blue sticker and that in addition to Euro 6 diesel cars, particularly clean vehicles (<270 mg NOx per km) will also be exempted from driving bans - regardless of whether they are retrofitted or updated, regardless of whether they are Euro 4 or 5. Here too, the devil is still in the details: Which vehicles will actually overcome this hurdle depends on the underlying measurement method.


...depends on how it is measured. The perpetual moving-goalpost principle!

Can anyone find A measurement figure for the Defender?

I‘ve been bombarded with infos over the last two days about BMW‘s newest faux-pas. Whilst they make statements about there being no suitable hardware (Adblue tank and SCR Cat) to upgrade their recent Euro 5 products and that it is too expensive to develope the technology, a German television documentary shows the contrary. Apparently BMW themselves have the hardware in their US parts catalogues and it is fitted from the factory to California distributed vehicles. A German workshop ordered the parts from a US dealer and installed them in an X3 and easily achieved the sub 270 clicks (down from over 800) in a real time on road test.
This raises the question, who should pay for the kit (€ 1500,- + installation), the customer, or the manufacturer. Either way, it torpedoes the manufacture‘s plan to sell another new vehicle. 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW,
2012 2.2 90 SW,
2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma
Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTs,
Recaro CSs, anorak, wellingtons

Last edited by Wild Card 90 on 7th Jan 2019 6:29pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #749165 4th Jan 2019 1:30pm
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Dreamweapon



Member Since: 19 Dec 2016
Location: Hessische Odenwald
Posts: 55
Scotland 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Cairns Blue
My theory on this issue, the manufacturers deliberately screwed their own customers, then sat down with the German Government to work out a way where the manufacturer could still profit by forcing new car sales, while the Government has an excuse to increase taxes to squander on vanity projects Whistle .
Post #749174 4th Jan 2019 2:38pm
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Blondie



Member Since: 31 May 2014
Location: London
Posts: 46
United Kingdom 
DSC-off wrote:
'what happens if they bring that nonsense over to the UK?'

Adam, it is happening here now. Depending on where you live, it will reach you sooner or later.
Once a vehicle is registered with or without an emission figure or a Euro emission stage, it can be penalised in the future on that basis.

The London LEZ has made it prohibitively expensive to use an older diesel Landrover for years now. The ones registered as commercial.
Glasgow is banning all vehicles that don't comply with it's city centre LEZ from 2022.
Bath is planning a LEZ.
I suspect that many more cities are planning the same. All of these will apply to vehicles already on the road today.

Enjoy your petrol and diesel vehicles while you can. They will be taxed off the roads or selectively banned before we know it. Rolling Eyes


Unfortunately for London the LEZ is old news.

From April this year any defender will have the pay to drive in the ULEZ another £12.50 per day on top of the current LEZ.

From October 2021 this zone gets extended to the north and south circular roads.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone

Thank you Sadiq Khan
Post #749767 7th Jan 2019 4:07pm
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PeeWee



Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: Somersetty
Posts: 17
England 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Rimini Red
Yes, Bath has a "CAZ" or Clean Air Zone and diesel cars are permitted free of charge. The caveat is that if the vehicle is classed by DVLA as commercial it must pay. TD5 Defenders are free, but Landrover, in their infinite wisdom chose to declare Puma Defenders as "commercial vehicles". It doesn't bother me - I will happily avoid Bath (I can't stand the pretentious place!).
Before entering Bath with a diesel powered vehicle, use the CAZ vehicle checker to be sure.
Post #971658 18th Nov 2022 11:18pm
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BrickBox



Member Since: 05 Oct 2021
Location: Wales
Posts: 822
Wales 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Zermatt Silver
Any Puma before < 2011 is still classed as non commercial Cool Whistle 2008 2.4 110 Utility Station Wagon XS.
Post #971693 19th Nov 2022 2:43pm
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PeeWee



Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: Somersetty
Posts: 17
England 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Rimini Red
Mine was first registered September 2010 and, despite being 7 seats, it is N1 "light goods up to 3,500 kg" which makes it liable for the daily charge in Bath, Birmingham and Bradford.
https://vehiclecheck.drive-clean-air-zone....er_details
As I implied, it's not a problem for me to not go into these places!
Post #971702 19th Nov 2022 3:26pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17382
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
BrickBox wrote:
Any Puma before < 2011 is still classed as non commercial Cool Whistle


Not so, the DC, USW, and full hardtop vehicles are commercials.
Post #971705 19th Nov 2022 3:52pm
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