 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Emission regulations, Defender and Stuttgart |
 
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060   
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The madness of it all!
Wasn‘t at all surprised to read that from today on all Euro 4 and less diesels are now banned from driving into Stuttgart. I won‘t go off on a rant about how stupid all this diesel witch hunting is, as I just wanted to share with you the what this means for a Defender owner. The 2.2, with it‘s catalysator, EGR and particle-filter is classified as Euro 5, right? However, the proof of emissions classification is the Euro sticker on the windscreen, and Euro 4 and 5 vehicles share the same green Euro 4 sticker. This means it is impossible, other than through intimate knowledge about the model itself or by stopping the driver and asking to see the paperwork (Fahrzeugschein) to spot a Euro 5 vehicle. As a Defender doesn‘t look even remotely like a „clean diesel“, and the police are now encouraged to enforce the new regulations, I‘m sure one of us will get stopped, or if parked, get some paperwork slid under the wiper blade. A copy of the appropriate paperwork, proudly displaying Euro 5 status taped to the inside of the windscreen, might be worth a try. Then I read that two years later the Euro 5 vehicles will join the „out of town“ gang! Only Euro 6 diesels from January 2020. If it hasn‘t become unbearably embarrassing to sit in traffic between Zoe‘s, Teslas and an armada of 700 hp „hybrid“ planet killing limousines, I‘d still like to be able to use the Defender wherever I need it at the time, and not end not end up having to drive around Stuttgart to get to the other side (wasting fuel, and creating unnecessary emissions). Reading further, I discovered that there are a number of exceptions - busses, trucks and such.....and diesel vehicles that due to their hardware (cat, filter, egr) and software, produce „only“ 270 Microgramms of nitrogen dioxide. I checked the figures for a 2.2 Tcdi, and was surprised to discover that the 90 is rated at 266 mg and the 110/130 at 291 mg. So I guess I do run a clean diesel, and can continue to drive into Stuttgart for quite a few years longer. There is no rhyme or reason to the whole damned affair, none at all! 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MT´s, Recaro CS´s, anorak, wellingtons |
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1st Jan 2019 7:33pm |
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| Tommo Member Since: 19 Dec 2013 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 830  
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Your right wild card 90....it is a witch hunt!!!
There is no clean alternative at present as battery production, renewal and disposal is as dirty as any existing fuel. Its a shame the public are believing the hype! |
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2nd Jan 2019 7:02am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060
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@ Julie, there are definitely better places to own a Defender than Stuttgart, but we live and work nearby. Stuttgart is centered in a topographical bowl, which makes it particularly susceptible to pollution.
However, the regulations in other German cities are similarly bizarre. Some (Frankfurt and Cologne) will ban Euro 1 and 2 petrol vehicles (sports cars and young classics from the eighties) from April this year, but let them back in when they reach thirty years old. All will ban Euro 4 and less diesels by the end of the year. There‘s a wonderful picture of one of Stuttgart’s mobile „Messfahrzeuge“ measuring stations circulating the net. It is based on a rather weary looking 2.9 liter naturally aspirated Mercedes Sprinter diesel from the eighties. Not cat and definitely no particle filter on that one! I hope they switch off the measuring equipment before they start it up. In the eighties the diesel was the planet saver due to its low CO2 emissions. Zero road tax and cheap refueling. And we weren‘t aware of nitrogen dioxide pollution? Now the electric car is the planet saver. Zero road tax and cheap recharging. Silicium and Cobalt mining, battery recycling issues loom ahead, unpredictable fire risk in accidents, increased dust particles generation due to the increased weight of the vehicles. And the beat goes on.... 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MT´s, Recaro CS´s, anorak, wellingtons |
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2nd Jan 2019 9:42am |
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| WindyJ Member Since: 18 Oct 2018 Location: France Posts: 190 |
The population of Stuttgart causes more enviromental damage with their porc and beef consumption than they do with diesel
engines but the damage is elsewhere so thats OK: make those grotty Africans and Central Americans pay for Stuttgarts consumption! Diesel engines only poison the locals themselves, so can’t have that. Oh and of course it’s politically correct to tax cars, after all cars do give the population freedom and politicians like to restrict that. Interestingly my 90 has 266mg written on it’s CoC but the French registration system gave it 229mg. Not going to argue. Has a Crit air 3 sticker so mid range and still OK in Paris and Lyon at moment. Not that I ever go near those towns in the Defender. |
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2nd Jan 2019 10:52am |
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| hornet Member Since: 04 Jan 2010 Location: Western Europe Posts: 361 |
Careful, milligrams are not micrograms, there's a factor of 1,000 in between. 265 g/km is the carbon dioxide emission of the 2.2l. But in fact it is an extremely embarrassing discussion, which is marked not by facts but by emotional and dangerous half-knowledge. shameful |
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2nd Jan 2019 2:29pm |
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| Adam17 Member Since: 15 May 2018 Location: Within Bedfordshire Posts: 1193 
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I didn't think the governments could penalise the older car..? I though they could only penalise the newer car that was 'bad' to the environment... Oh how wrong I was...
So does that mean all the locals that live in the area are having to sell their cars and buy 'better' cars? And what happens if they bring that nonsense over to the UK? I over hear stuff about London and congestion charge.. (I don't have 'Live' TV, refuse to pay the licence to the greedy BBC. I have Netflix and YouTube they do me fine) Anyways back on point - How can the government force the locals to buy new cars?? BOILS MY BLOOD!! Regards Adam Loving The Duchess The Defender 110 TD5 XS My Defender story - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic64005.html |
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2nd Jan 2019 2:51pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586 
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I think that in the future will be a lot of houses under sales inside the EU medium and big cities!!!
I want Europe, it will be essential for the life of the member states, but not this Europe! Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition 
IID Pro MV License |
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2nd Jan 2019 4:44pm |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1400 
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'what happens if they bring that nonsense over to the UK?'
Adam, it is happening here now. Depending on where you live, it will reach you sooner or later. Once a vehicle is registered with or without an emission figure or a Euro emission stage, it can be penalised in the future on that basis. The London LEZ has made it prohibitively expensive to use an older diesel Landrover for years now. The ones registered as commercial. Glasgow is banning all vehicles that don't comply with it's city centre LEZ from 2022. Bath is planning a LEZ. I suspect that many more cities are planning the same. All of these will apply to vehicles already on the road today. Enjoy your petrol and diesel vehicles while you can. They will be taxed off the roads or selectively banned before we know it.  |
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2nd Jan 2019 6:56pm |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060
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Thanks Hornet for pointing that out. I checked the infos I‘d referred from and discovered two major mistakes on my part. The limit I quoted as „less than 270“ was referring to NOx mg/km. As you confirm, the 2.2 produces 266 g/km CO2. Different units and different emissions (Carbon Dioxide / Nitrogen Dioxide). 
No idea how much NOx the Defender produces, but it is most likely way more than the coming limits. 
Bad news, very bad news..... 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MT´s, Recaro CS´s, anorak, wellingtons |
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2nd Jan 2019 7:56pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17372 
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Sadly I have also come to this conclusion. We are seeing the end of the Internal Combustion Era, in much the same way that the 1920s brought the end of the horse-transport era. A 100-year chapter of transport draws to a close. The difference is that the horse was superseded by something that was better, and it happened without the swingeing financial penalties that are to come. The infernal combustion engine is being rushed to oblivion by ill-conceived and poorly-executed legislation at a time when there is not yet a practical alternative. The way the world is going makes me so glad I don't have kids! |
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2nd Jan 2019 10:30pm |
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| Adam17 Member Since: 15 May 2018 Location: Within Bedfordshire Posts: 1193
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Im in Bedfordshire, so not too far from London... But I am hoping to move south ion the next couple of years - maybe Devon Cornwall way.. Hopefully to the countryside, hate towns and cities... Regards Adam Loving The Duchess The Defender 110 TD5 XS My Defender story - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic64005.html |
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3rd Jan 2019 11:25am |
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| hornet Member Since: 04 Jan 2010 Location: Western Europe Posts: 361 |
That is true! At the end it will go on and on, the question is only how. Currently the gap between reason and insanity is widening across countries and continents. Never before have so many idiots been in power positions. |
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3rd Jan 2019 1:29pm |
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| Adam17 Member Since: 15 May 2018 Location: Within Bedfordshire Posts: 1193
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[quote="blackwolf" The way the world is going makes me so glad I don't have kids![/quote]
Agreed, also glad I don't have children, may have been nice years ago, but as you say, the way the world is going, its not getting better... This may bring a smile to some faces... Click image to enlarge Regards Adam Loving The Duchess The Defender 110 TD5 XS My Defender story - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic64005.html |
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3rd Jan 2019 2:17pm |
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| Dreamweapon Member Since: 19 Dec 2016 Location: Hessische Odenwald Posts: 55  
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Similar situation up the road here in Darmstadt, Euro6 only, from what I read even Euro4 or 5 with a retrofit unicorn jizz SCR and a Blue Badge will still be banned. Considering taking my EURO4 2.4 Landy 110 back to Scotland and re-registering it there. That will confuse them, perhaps do some seriously non-TÃœV modifications just to be extra upsetting to the Ordnungsamt.  Last edited by Dreamweapon on 3rd Jan 2019 4:36pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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3rd Jan 2019 2:37pm |
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