 | Home > Off Topic > hybrid EV - cost of replacement battery |
 
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1410   
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I'd have thought the battery life issue was obvious to anyone that's owned a mobile phone or any rechargeable item.
The cost of a replacement battery is often the same or more than the net value of the item. Don't we all just buy a new phone? Why are EV batteries so expensive to replace? The number of them that go together in an EV battery pack is one reason. There are often dozens of them, typically 60 or so in a vehicle. Normal lead-acid batteries can be around £100 each these days for a decent quality one. Multiply that by 60 and you're at £6000! Then there's the way they are packaged. They are housed in a big box made from high strength steel, so they don't all carry on flying down the road like heavy missiles in the event of the vehicke stopping abruptly in a collision. That box is housed under the floor (usually), I don't know how much of the vehicle has to be stripped down to remove the box, then put it all back together again. It certainly will be a lot more involved than sliding a cover off and slipping a couple of AA's in the TV remote control. Changing the whole battery pack and the box may be the most efficient way to do it. If you're changing EVERY battery in the box, why bother opening it up, replacing each battery? Surely more chance of something going wrong. Just replace the whole pack as a unit. So the cost could well include that massive, purpose built, box too. By the way it's a safety critical part, making it more expensive! Just a quick add up, £6000 batteries, £1000 for the box they come in, and say 20 hours to fit them at £100/hr. Comes to £9000. + VAT = £10,800. Thank you. By the way, your Super Range Rover EV needed it's annual service at the same time. The usual things, brake discs and pads, fluids, suspension bushes, etc. The grand total with the battery change is £13,800...  |
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10th Sep 2018 9:01pm |
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| o4dn Member Since: 08 Jan 2010 Location: South West Posts: 539  
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The use of batteries in EV is completely different from electronic appliances (laptop, smartphone, tablet, etc.).
The renewal rate of those electronic devices is a lot higher, the battery doesn't have to last for years so the charge management of the battery can afford to “waste” the battery, knowing that the owner of such devices will replace it within a couple of years anyway, regardless of the battery. For EV, this is different, the requirements are different and thus the battery management system closely monitors the temperature of the batteries, their charge level, the difference of charge between cells, the batteries are never fully charged nor discharged, all that make it so the battery in a Tesla can still retain 90% of initial capacity even after 160.000 miles: https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/2170...expectancy https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/ https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/16/tesla-...ve-longer/ “A Land Rover immobilized is a moral defeat for the driver and bad publicity for the vehicle, […] it's up to you to do justice to your Land Rover!” - Land Rover Driving Technique. -- 2009 2.4 Puma Defender 90 SW 1979 Land Rover Series 3 88" |
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11th Sep 2018 7:19am |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3294 
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As others have mentioned there are Leafs out there with very high mileage and working for a living. The batteries seem to be outlasting traditional combustion engines.
In Japan they now offer a service to swap the Leaf battery when it does eventually go for 3000 usd. If makers do a similar thing here it would make them very attractive. |
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11th Sep 2018 9:39am |
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| mick Member Since: 08 Feb 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 2109  
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The thing is with the electric cars etc can I go on holiday towing my Rib say to Italy with two 5 min refules on a 1000 mile journey.NO
So they are a waste of time Hydrogen is the way |
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11th Sep 2018 4:23pm |
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| Stacey007 Member Since: 25 Sep 2015 Location: Cheshire Posts: 3751
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"EV's are sold on the basis that they are environmentally friendly.
I would agree that actually moving under electrical power the EV do emit very low pollution levels. However look at the bigger picture. Batteries are lithium based. Where is major source of lithium? Chile and the local population are suffering environmentally from the mining of lithium. Where are lithium batteries made? China that environmentally friendly nation. Other country is India. Then the batteries are shipped to Europe so what are the environmental costs of these batteries? ^ I agree with this.... Most of the 'hybrids' have large petrol engines and a tiny electric one simply at the moment to get round the tax loop holes for company car drivers. The BMW 330e, Mercedes C350e etc. Its pretty much a con. The manufactures are not doing it to save the planet. They are doing it so Mr Sales rep chooses their car over another as its taxed less. I looked at one for my wife as she was recently changing cars, A BMW i3 was coming in at close on £40K, and the Mini Country man £35K and Gold GTE was around £38K now that's an awful lot of money for what it is. At least we both thought that. Surely my 45 year old series is more environmental friendly as its out lived many new cars and so assuming you bought it new, its one car being built and manufactured so far less pollution overall than buying a new car every 3 or 4 years 
What I have discussed however is using an engine out of a crashed electric car to power a Landrover (and I'm on some EV forums for people doing just that). A hybrid lexus engine from a 400h or similar in a defender  |
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11th Sep 2018 4:53pm |
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| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2781
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Yes you make a valid point with the Land Rover comparison.
My Defender TD5 fares badly on tailpipe emissions but with a life expectancy (if looked after) of what, 30 years+ It’s already 13 years old and people keep mistaking it for a last off the line in 2016 “lt looks new” So when you look at the whole picture my 110 is more environmentally friendly than a Prius/Leaf etc. As it will last 2/3 times as long (and most likely be still going) |
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24th Sep 2018 8:15pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581
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I wonder what the age is of Defenders/Series vehicles used as a daily drive vehicle used by Def 2 members?
Am not talking about that historic/special vehicle which is cosseted kept in a heated garage and only come out a few times a year when the sun is shining. My daily drive is a 300 TDi that is 22 years old (owned for 21 years by me) parked outside and with 218,000 miles on clock. So what is more environmentally friendly my old 300 TDi or a modern EV? Brendan |
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25th Sep 2018 8:39am |
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| o4dn Member Since: 08 Jan 2010 Location: South West Posts: 539
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Sorry but that logic is a bit flawed, I'm afraid...
Old defenders being more environmentally friendly than a brand new electric vehicle, that simply doesn't scale, you just cannot produce enough of those 22 years old defender for the whole car market of today... 
Besides, there are some odd people who want confort, reliability, safety, etc. from their car, none of these things you get with a Defender  “A Land Rover immobilized is a moral defeat for the driver and bad publicity for the vehicle, […] it's up to you to do justice to your Land Rover!” - Land Rover Driving Technique.
-- 2009 2.4 Puma Defender 90 SW 1979 Land Rover Series 3 88" |
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25th Sep 2018 8:49am |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
base productions mile lithium batteries make all over the planet, work out each battery pack need too work for 20000 mile on order to off set environmental damage of productions and ship and how long do last be for need replacing
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25th Sep 2018 10:45am |
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| derbywill Member Since: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 559 
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I agree with Brendan,
No manufacturers mention what the CO2 impact and quarrying a massive hole in the ground and then charging it by fossil and renewable energy. Yes it is more Eco friendly driving but you cant just go to a fuel station and fill it up, yes Tesla do the 20 minute supercharger but they don't advertise that after this one super quick charge it has to go on a slow charge. I will be more interested when there is a technology that can be refueled as quick as a fossil fueled vehicle, as like most others convenience plays a big part in choosing a vehicle. Currently I have had my Td5 Defender for nearly 10 years, I tow a caravan and 3.5 tonne Ifor williams trailers, I drive through farm fields and do some motorway cruising hence the overdrive. I am unaware of a EV vehicle that can do this and be simple to maintain. Kind Regards Will 2005 90 XS 1954 86'' Series 1 tilt 1968 88” 2A 200tdi 2002 110 Hardtop |
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25th Sep 2018 12:14pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2665 
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A friend of mine works for a climate watch organisation, and we had this debate a few times over the years,
If a Defender lasts for many years (reports of 80/85% of all Series/Defenders manufactured are still "working" somewhere), tyres last ages, simple to maintain and run.... How does that challenge a ""disposable" vehicle? His considered opinion was that the Defender is a "good" vehicle when measured "soup to nuts", in a proper "Total Cost of Ownership" battle (i.e. from drawing board through manufacture, through useful life, and finally disposal). His organisation is pushing to have this data made available to customers.... Like houses and fridges and TV's need to display their enviro credentials, but extend that to the impact of original manufacature, and their recycle-ability at end-of-life. When Asian manufacturers can kill the planet with few enviro controls, compared to our stringent UK/Euro ones, the enviro cost of a Chinese/Korean car must be massive by the time it gets to the UK showroom! That way we can see a level playing field of the product's impact over it's life time. It's not all about MPG!!! Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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25th Sep 2018 12:33pm |
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