 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Lumpy drive offroad in 1st and 2nd gear |
 
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554  |
Is this in low or high on transfer box
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19th May 2018 8:32am |
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| foggydave Member Since: 29 Nov 2012 Location: Midlands Posts: 263  
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In high range.
With my old Td5 I used to chug over grass, towing the caravan in first gear in anti stall mode ie foot off accelerator no problem. Then again I have had to alter my whole driving style with the 2.2 giving it high revs before changing gear which you have to do a lot. Unlike the Td5 which stayed in 5th gear even at very low speeds. I appreciate there is not as much torque with the 2.2 but the control on the accelerator is so fine that just the slightest touch makes the motor jerk. Apart from this annoying problem I find the 2.2 a superb vehicle especially for towing and despite having go up and down the gears more often the mpg is very good. The wife likes the heated seats and better climate control a bonus too |
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19th May 2018 1:37pm |
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| foggydave Member Since: 29 Nov 2012 Location: Midlands Posts: 263
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Having read some old posts on other forums about the jerkiness in 1st and 2nd high range it appears to say that anti stall on a 2.2 is only effective in low range.
There seems to be a few reasons given for the jerkiness but no difinitive answer. It could be Accelerator mudule too sensitive MAF sensor problems ECU settings It is a strange fact that people have various problems, post on a forum, but very rarely inform you of the cure (if any) |
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19th May 2018 4:26pm |
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| UtilityTruck Member Since: 09 Jan 2014 Location: Oxford Posts: 463
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My anti stall works great in 1st high- it’ll bimble along nicely even up considerable inclines. Has yours been serviced recently? Checked for fault codes? 2014 Keswick Utility 2.2
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19th May 2018 5:22pm |
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| mick Member Since: 08 Feb 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 2109  
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Might need the injectors synchronising
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19th May 2018 6:58pm |
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| foggydave Member Since: 29 Nov 2012 Location: Midlands Posts: 263
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Yes I have only had it a few months and did a full service. Also had a remap and no faults found.
Would injector synchronsation show up as a fault code? It does seem to be a fueling problem of some kind. It seems strange that this is such a well documented problem with no single solution. The only general solution posted seems to be an ecu update that was applied to certain VIN numbers as requested by the customer if they had the problem. Does anyone know what these numbers are? |
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19th May 2018 7:46pm |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 917 
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The anti stall is effective all the time even with Accelerator input.
Pottering around in High 1st or 2nd within a similar setting didn't have this effect even before I had Alive remap mine because of the known 2nd / 3rd gear hiccup. See>>> HERE 2.2 Flat spot The 2.2 with it's tech I find a much more relaxing drive than a early TD5 I have driven, now that is horrid jerky machine that is why It's nicknamed lurch. Yes first is low geared and needs a few revs if pulling away uphill using it but after that going between the rest of the gears requires nothing more than about 2.5k revs to make good progress. Given the 2.2's 265Ilbft to the TD5's 225Ilbfts and the TD5's known blackhole in the bottom of the rev range the 2.2 should be a nicer drive. Granted this is done on memory as Within 6 months of owning mine Gary worked his magic and the without it sounding a sales line the 150 autobiography tune is a beautiful drive with the early accelerator reaction a lot smoother and a pleasing shove when exploring the lower reaches. Also You'll lose some of that holding back you might find on big hills requiring those annoying gear changes. is there another nearby you could try to see if there is a difference? Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest |
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19th May 2018 7:56pm |
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| mick Member Since: 08 Feb 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 2109
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I don’t know all the ins and outs of it all but mine was similar hunting,so they recalibrated the injectors and it solved it.
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19th May 2018 8:07pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720 
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As Devon rover has pointed out the 2.2 should have a lot more torque than a TD5. both the 2.4 and 2.2 Puma engines give 122bhp and 359Nm of torque as standard. I'm not sure if the Defender implementation of the Puma has the overboost feature, used in the Mondeo and X-type Puma engines, but in those it momentarily pushes it up to nearer 400Nm when you boot it. That's compared to 122bhp and 300Nm of the TD5. It's worth checking your injectors are sealing properly, certainly on my 2.4 it transformed the engine when I replaced the leaking washers, leaking injector washers don't throw up a fault code. If yours isn't 'very' torquey then there's something wrong with it. |
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19th May 2018 8:57pm |
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| foggydave Member Since: 29 Nov 2012 Location: Midlands Posts: 263
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My Td5 was remapped by JE Engineering in 2005 (I am not sure what the bhp or Nm was.)
I have had my 2.2 remapped by Empire from 122bhp to 160bhp and 360Nm to 458Nm The torque is there its just that you have to do more gear work to achieve it What I understand is that the 2.2 has been geared to take account of the DPF. This means that to acheive the bhp and Nm you have to give more rpm. I have had to adjust my driving style on the 2.2 and drive it more like a car with high revs ie 2.5k when changing gear. I do find the 2.2s towing ability is far better than the Td5 and on hills where the Td5 slowed down the 2.2 just keeps on accelerating. As you say it is a far more relaxing ride than the Td5 its this one little niggling problem that needs to be sorted. As the injector seals are easy to check I will start there. Thank to all for the input. |
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19th May 2018 10:48pm |
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| zsd-puma Member Since: 09 Aug 2016 Location: Kent Posts: 2720
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I'm not really sure what you mean by having to do more gear work to achieve torque. If you have to change down to make it pull, then is has less torque. If an engine has more torque then you can change up sooner if anything and leave it in a higher gear.
You shouldn't have to rev the nuts off it to change gear, that indicates a major problem (because it's gutless) or it's a really bad remap. I doubt the 2.2 is geared lower than the 2.4, because the 2.4 and 2.2 have the same torque figures as standard and both produce peak torque and 2000rpm. If it had lower gearing you'd just be able to move off in 2nd. Did the people who did the remap tell you that? |
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20th May 2018 12:16am |
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| foggydave Member Since: 29 Nov 2012 Location: Midlands Posts: 263
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What I meant was that to achieve the torque/power etc you have to use more revs. I know the torque/power is there it just needs more work to achieve it, hence the 6 gears which requires more gear changes to achieve this. IAs I said on hills where I had to change right down on the Td5 the 2.2 just keeps powering on and accelerating. I was told by a mate that there were 6 gears because of the DPF but if the 2.4 has the same box this may not be the case.
The remap is ok (It really does exceed expectations) and the motor is far from gutless, as I say it pulls like a train when towing. In fact it was the tuner who advised I changed my driving style a tad. On reflection when not towing I tend to change gear at just over 2.25k rpm. I would have thought if peak power is at 2000rpm then to change up and keep peak power you would have to take it up to 2.25k - 2.5k rpm to stay in the peak power band when going up into a higher gear. I wonder as suggested that there may be a fuelling problem ie seals on injectors. If I take covers off etc and do a visual inspection of injectors in situ is it obvious ie by staining etc that there is a leak? |
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20th May 2018 7:20am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17414 
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I haven't driven a 2.2 but have a 2.4 and TD5. The 2.4 is massively more torquey than the TD5, and will pull strongly from about 800rpm, while the TD5 is virtually useless below 1800rpm. The TD5 drives like a car, the 2.4 is more hgv like with its massive bottom end torque.
The 2.2 and 2.4 have identical gearboxes and drivelines and are geared the same. I am convinced from what you describe that there is a malfunction with your 2.2. |
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20th May 2018 7:54am |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 917
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the 2.2 2.4 you can surf a good torque curve straight off the get go, In a relaxed driving way with my somewhat less than yours 400nm of useable torque is as blackwolf says 800 rpm up to a circa 1800 - 2k then change up. if you are having issues then I would do the usual things like MAF … VCV .. injector sealing and learning No way should there be any jerkiness at low speed Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest
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20th May 2018 8:48am |
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