 | Home > In Car Electronics > Speaker upgrade... mixing component with co-ax?? |
 
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845  
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Hi,
Sorry for asking another 'speaker upgrade' question.... I have looked through a good few threads and couldn't find the specific information I was after, although on the positive side, the question is a little bit more informed than it would have been before! I'll ask the questions first, then put some general information below that might give some context. Certainly one of the front speakers is goosed, so some sort of replacement is needed. First - If I upgrade the speakers (300Tdi 110 SW) and if I put components in the front, what do I do at the back? Must they also be components, or will co-ax do?? Second - if I (could I?) put some sort of powered bass speaker on the back of the cubby box - is that a 'sub'? - would it matter that this was closer to me than the rear speakers could be?? So my car was a 'utility' version = no ICE whatsover when I got it. I've fitted a head unit and four speakers - all co-ax. The front ones are fitted in the usual place. I had to cut the dash, and they are mounted onto angled 1" spacer mounts to give clearance, particularly where the wiper motor is:  Click image to enlarge THis is how deep it is - certainly couldn't go any deeper than this or I think it would hit the wiper motor: Click image to enlarge What size are these?? Is this a 13cm speaker? Click image to enlarge I thought something like this would fit - the dimensions seem the same: http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/kenwood-kfc-e130p The current rear speakers are properly ancient three way co-ax Pioneer "pods" - probably about 20 years old if not more. These used to be mounted right at the back roof, above the quarter-lights - mounted off the roof lining, with suitable backing plates to spread the weight. Now I have them fitted at the front of a load area shelf - so just above and behind the heads of any 2nd row passengers. I think the current head unit is a Sony DAB of some sort. It's pretty recent, so I'm sure it would have a connection for a sub/bass speaker if that's a worthwhile thing. I have an ipod plumbed in. I've also done a bit of work on sound deadening, including a Wright off-road sound killer mat on the front floors, lower bulkead and seatbox. I've fitted some dynamat pads to the roof, and overlaid that with foam, and other bits and pieces of closed cell foam to the rear tub floor and wheel arches. I like my 'tunes' so access to music is really important. What I've had has been OK, but I've always felt I was missing something with the front speakers pointing at my knees. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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11th Feb 2018 9:32pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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THanks for the reply.
Cost is obviously an issue, but it's not been the main thing here. I was thinking about the component ones just because I thought that would be better at bringing some of the sound out of the front footwell... you don't think they would do that? If that's the case, and that high quality co-ax ones would be just as good, then because there would be work involved in fitting the tweeters to the top of the dash, I probably wouldn't bother. In terms of an amp to power a sub - I wasn't thinking of going to that extent. I thought something like this would do the job? I'm not talking about that particular unit, just something like that which has its own power supply. So, a simpler set up? http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/subwoofers...-subwoofer Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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11th Feb 2018 10:11pm |
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| Badger110 Member Since: 06 Feb 2018 Location: South hams Posts: 1039  
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They will do it ( component ) in the footwell, however a co ax won't make the sound coming from that area any better imho. Co ax drivers are ok, but they won't beat a similar priced component driver in the scenario you have ( coupled with a good Headunit ). Co ax work best on being directed at you ( the tweeters/mids work best at ear level )..this isn't happening in the footwell 
Land Rover ( bless them ) made a good choice in bringing a seperate tweeter onto the top of the dash which gives you a much rounder sound..you wont achieve that with a co ax in the footwell or a component for that matter. If you want to split top and mid by having a tweeter in the top of the dash and a mid/full range in the footwell with a bass behind the cubby box then that will give you the best chance. LR's are limited in where you can put full range drivers...
Specs look alright but i'd be a little sceptical of the depth of the whole unit being 75mm...my first thoughts would be a punchy sound rather than a rumble of bass..although it quotes a 50hz cut off which isn't too bad. For an all in one unit, it looks ok and will hopefully give the overall sound some depth 
Top end ( tweeters ) are directional, mid range is similar and bass is omni directional. |
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11th Feb 2018 10:39pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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Thank you - that's what I'll go for. And assuming I can mix component and co-ax, I'll go for a new set of co-ax units in the back.
Again, thanks. Like I say, that unit was just an example. Any deeper though, and it might be a bit of a pain for 2nd row seat passengers. I could fit it under the 2nd row seats I suppose - but that's where the high-lift jack lives at the moment... But I'm happy that I have a better picture of what to do. Cheers. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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12th Feb 2018 9:56am |
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| 300TDi CSW Phil Member Since: 03 Apr 2016 Location: Bracknell Posts: 750 
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If you are looking for a discreet sub woofer setup there are a couple of companies MUD being one of them that make a "sublocker" (Mud name) which takes the powered active underseat sub woofers (they'll even sell you one to go in it).
It goes under the centre cubby box and lifts it up a few inches which I'm fairly certain would make it a better height to be an armrest. This is the way I am thinking of going in mine. 1995 300 Tdi Epsom Green - It's a keeper. Wide Track Sankey- In bits- Gone to a new home M0XQS |
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12th Feb 2018 10:03am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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Thanks Phil,
I had scanned past the mud sublocker before, but it hadn't really registered. Good to be reminded. It actually looks quite neat, and as you say, raising the cubby would do no harm. I'd have to think about that though. I also want to tidy up my electrical accessory installation, including a bank of switches. Because my car's a 300Tdi there isn't much space on the dash, and I don't really like the idea of any of the bulky aftermarket dash consoles. So I was thinking of mounting them on the front of my cubbybox. For ease of future access, this would mean putting the switch wiring through some multiplugs - probably under the cubby box... I'd have to consider how/where they would go if I fitted a 'sub-locker'. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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12th Feb 2018 10:50am |
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| 300TDi CSW Phil Member Since: 03 Apr 2016 Location: Bracknell Posts: 750
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Agree with you completely about the lack of space in the 300 to put additional electrics.
I have the Mud console which is great but I know not to everyones taste. I also have the tunnel tray with additional sockets. Lastly I have the cubby insert with a Double USB and switches for the heated seats and front worklight. When I finally get my amber strobes sorted I need to find somewhere for the two switches for those. The below shows the electrical end of the Cubby panel (cup holder is at the end not quite all in the picture) and also part of the tunnel tray. Click image to enlarge 1995 300 Tdi Epsom Green - It's a keeper. Wide Track Sankey- In bits- Gone to a new home M0XQS |
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12th Feb 2018 10:57am |
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| Djcla Member Since: 29 Jul 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 469
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Kenwood KSC-SW11 fits nicely on the back on the cubby box, i paired mine with coaxial front and back and aim happy with it as its a defender at the end of the day . 130mm 5.25" in the back and 4" in the front.
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge For some reason i couldn't use the existing spacers as the holes didnt line up correctly with the speakers i choose but i didn't have to worry about the depth on my TD5 as it doesn't have the wiper motor in the way. |
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14th Feb 2018 9:38am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829  
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Are you the guy who used to make LR's wiring looms?
Click image to enlarge Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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14th Feb 2018 11:53am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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Thanks Djcla,
One of the things about LRs - they're all so different. I have a non-standard cubby box - made by Barebox. But I think it's probably a bigger mounting space for a small sub, albeit it might stick more out into the 2nd row seat area. Click image to enlarge On the plus side to that, I don't think it would be too bad, and in another year and a half or so both our kids will have left anyway.... I do sometimes use that space to stack diving tanks (trying to bring some of the load forward) but again, I think I'd be OK. (Please excuse the mess! Some sound deadening and carpet is on the to do list!) Having thought about it since CSWPhil posted about the Mud sub-locker, I think the cubby is probably too tall to take something like that underneath it - so a rear mount is probably the way to go. I'll need to check and measure further though. This is the rear speaker arrangement I have - well-placed for front seat passengers I think. Click image to enlarge At the front it's this - even with the slightly angled spacer, I do still feel as if I'm losing a lot of the sound. That's why I started thinking about the dash-top tweeters. Click image to enlarge For anyone who didn't have them as standard (dash top tweeters) and has since fitted them, has it been worth the effort? Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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14th Feb 2018 12:09pm |
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| Djcla Member Since: 29 Jul 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 469
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I don't know what you mean lol, I've sorted it out a bit since then. Issue is getting 6m of wire for a short cable run  |
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14th Feb 2018 12:24pm |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060  
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 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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15th Feb 2018 5:46am |
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| derbywill Member Since: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 559 
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On my td5 i have fitted focal tweeters in the dash top which look neat and almost factory, I also have a mud sub locker with a alpine compact sub, also 6x9 in the rear where the originals were.
It is a big improvement on sound quality and the cubby box is a good arm rest now ! Cheers Will 2005 90 XS 1954 86'' Series 1 tilt 1968 88â 2A 200tdi 2002 110 Hardtop |
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15th Feb 2018 3:10pm |
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| Djcla Member Since: 29 Jul 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 469
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Any pics of the 6 by 9's installed by chance?
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15th Feb 2018 3:25pm |
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