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GrouseII

Member Since: 29 Dec 2017
Location: Bucks
Posts: 37

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Coniston Green

New Lock idea, thoughts?

Hi everyone

I have had an idea to dissuade those (known as scumbags) out there that would try and steal my/our TDci Defenders.
So, I am not protecting my idea below for any commercial opportunity. I hope that we (the community) could perhaps contribute to this idea. If we can get it to work and beat all the thieves’ ingenuity out there then I’ll make a prototype and then if that works make the specs available so others can get one made if they want. This is just an artist impression below.
The idea is only meant to prevent a thief driving the Defender away rather than immobilising it completely. I wish I could get an X-Eng pedal lock for my TDci! Obviously with all these sort of products it could still be towed away :’(

Perhaps the community could comment on the following:

1. Would this principle of locking the seat forward so you can’t get behind the wheel stop someone driving it away?
2. Is there any easy way to get around it as a thief? – Even if you cut through or removed the seat back the seat lock would not leave enough room to get behind the wheel.
3. Is it too complicated to use ie you have to put the seat forward each time?
4. It needs to be bolted so would owners be prepared to drill their rear bulkhead?
5. Have I completely lost the plot and wasting my time.?

Note. The reason I don’t want a normal pedal lock is I don’t want another thing loose in my Landy.
Hope some of you fancy pitting your wits against the thieving scumbags.
Thanks GrouseII

29th Dec 2017 2:31pm

GrouseII

Member Since: 29 Dec 2017
Location: Bucks
Posts: 37

Click image to enlarge

29th Dec 2017 2:33pm

apt100

Member Since: 05 Mar 2015
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1547

2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

Re: New Lock idea, thoughts?

I like your intentions, see comments below:

GrouseII wrote:

Perhaps the community could comment on the following:

1. Would this principle of locking the seat forward so you can’t get behind the wheel stop someone driving it away?
>>The PRINCIPLE of locking the seat forward would be a useful extra layer.

2. Is there any easy way to get around it as a thief? – Even if you cut through or removed the seat back the seat lock would not leave enough room to get behind the wheel.
>> I might be wrong - but just from the photos it looks like it could be bent upwards with a bit of brute force?

3. Is it too complicated to use ie you have to put the seat forward each time?
>> Might not appeal to everyone one for everyday use. But ok as an extra layer when leaving it in a particularly vulnerable area? I have considered maybe drilling the runners or something to slide the seat fully forward and clipping a padlock in. Nothing is foolproof, but every bit helps.

4. It needs to be bolted so would owners be prepared to drill their rear bulkhead?
>>>Many of the later models have the bulkhead delete bar fitted.

5. Have I completely lost the plot and wasting my time.?
>>No to the first but realistically probably yes to the second.

>>I do wish you the best of luck though

Note. The reason I don’t want a normal pedal lock is I don’t want another thing loose in my Landy.
Hope some of you fancy pitting your wits against the thieving scumbags.
Thanks GrouseII

edit: just an extra thought, but with the effort of making this you could make a holder or bracket to secure a pedal lock when not in use. (They are available to buy already for some models eg 'Ardcase)

29th Dec 2017 2:53pm

nitram17

Member Since: 09 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2261

How is it locked?is it anti bump key? You could have a similar type of thing on the floor of the defender that folded up to prevent access to the pedals due to its size!

29th Dec 2017 2:57pm

nitram17

Member Since: 09 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2261

Re: New Lock idea, thoughts?

apt100 wrote:
I like your intentions, see comments below:

GrouseII wrote:

Perhaps the community could comment on the following:

1. Would this principle of locking the seat forward so you can’t get behind the wheel stop someone driving it away?
>>The PRINCIPLE of locking the seat forward would be a useful extra layer.

2. Is there any easy way to get around it as a thief? – Even if you cut through or removed the seat back the seat lock would not leave enough room to get behind the wheel.
>> I might be wrong - but just from the photos it looks like it could be bent upwards with a bit of brute force?

3. Is it too complicated to use ie you have to put the seat forward each time?
>> Might not appeal to everyone one for everyday use. But ok as an extra layer when leaving it in a particularly vulnerable area? I have considered maybe drilling the runners or something to slide the seat fully forward and clipping a padlock iNothing is foolproof, but every bit helps.

you need to modify most if not all pedal locks from Standard so as to slow down or stop the common way around them!

4. It needs to be bolted so would owners be prepared to drill their rear bulkhead?
[b]>>>Many of the later models have the bulkhead delete bar fitted.

5. Have I completely lost the plot and wasting my time.?
>>No to the first but realistically probably yes to the second.

>>I do wish you the best of luck though

Note. The reason I don’t want a normal pedal lock is I don’t want another thing loose in my Landy.
Hope some of you fancy pitting your wits against the thieving scumbags.
Thanks GrouseII

edit: just an extra thought, but with the effort of making this you could make a holder or bracket to secure a pedal lock when not in use. (They are available to buy already for some models eg 'Ardcase)

s.art phones edit..you need to modify your pedal lock to make them more secure...please ignore my typos as my eye sight and thumb size make posting a challenge

29th Dec 2017 3:03pm

macfrank

Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 1053

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

Re: New Lock idea, thoughts?

GrouseII wrote:

I have had an idea to dissuade those (known as scumbags) out there that would try and steal my/our TDci Defenders.
So, I am not protecting my idea below for any commercial opportunity. I hope that we (the community) could perhaps contribute to this idea. If we can get it to work and beat all the thieves’ ingenuity out there then I’ll make a prototype and then if that works make the specs available so others can get one made if they want.

Excellent!

A few months ago I folded my seat forward and thought...

"put a chain around this?!"

Since then there were other things to do..., so I'm happy you brought this up.

GrouseII wrote:

1. Would this principle of locking the seat forward so you can’t get behind the wheel stop someone driving it away?
I would think so.

2. Is there any easy way to get around it as a thief? – Even if you cut through or removed the seat back the seat lock would not leave enough room to get behind the wheel.
Depends on the type of lock I guess.
With my seating postion I considered a simple chain and padlock, because the head rest is blocked by the steering wheel. But if that could be bent apart, the head rest could be removed.
Also the steering wheel could be cut.
So something different should be better.

3. Is it too complicated to use ie you have to put the seat forward each time?
Just folding it forward is easy enough for me. If you don't have to slide it forward, too.
If it then only needs one or two simple steps to lock the seat - great.
Maybe it could even automatically lock the seat in the front position so you only need the key to fold it back again, that would be perfect.

4. It needs to be bolted so would owners be prepared to drill their rear bulkhead?
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
Which part exactly is the rear bulkhead?

5. Have I completely lost the plot and wasting my time.?
If you did, then I did, too

Last edited by macfrank on 29th Dec 2017 5:12pm. Edited 1 time in total

29th Dec 2017 4:51pm

macfrank

Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 1053

Another comment because I only actually saw your illustration after I posted my last comment... (tired eyes, dark monitor, low contrast graphics)

I'm not sure how to mount this to a Station Wagon. We don't have that what must be the rear bulkhead (hence my question).
Also that bar at the rear top of your device? Is that part of the rear bulkhead? Might interfere with a Cubby Box if it would have to be retrofitted to a Station Wagon. The bar will also hinder our particular use of the Defender as a camper van. E.g. when sitting or sleeping in the back, we fold the passenger seat slightly forward and use its back as a backrest.

29th Dec 2017 5:12pm

gilarion

Member Since: 05 Dec 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 5107

2007 Defender 90 Other CSW Trident Green

Good Idea and a novel one. I cannot see moving the seat forward every time a problem what is a few seconds set against a theft. As for drilling the bulkhead not a major operation. And this idea because of its visual deterrent could also be a winner. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..

http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1

29th Dec 2017 5:21pm

JOW240725

Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7895

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

Seems a novel idea as an extra layer. However for me with a 110 SW, no bulkhead. Also from photos looks a little prone to brute force? I wonder if there was a way to simply lock the seat tipping level? So you can tip forward, lock in position/remove lever? James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html
MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641
MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557
Instagram @suffolk_rovers

29th Dec 2017 9:33pm

X4SKP

Member Since: 29 Nov 2013
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2293

2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey

Hello GrouseII

Welcome to the forum...

Good idea...

and worth giving some thought as to how best 'execute'.

First thoughts...
Potentially simple to 'activate' so could be a layer that's used.
Highly visible deterrent 'like' a Steering Wheel Clamp.
Mechanical 'brace' / lock should be both visible and 'significant' as this (obviously) is the deterrent.
Seat Base can still be removed (unless also locked which could be longer term).
Assume Seat Back could be unbolted or just ripped out, the problem of sitting in vehicle should remain.
Brace / Lock should be independent of Seat type, and non-damaging.
Must (should) work for those who remove their Steering Wheel as a security measure.

Good first post... SKIP
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html

29th Dec 2017 11:20pm

zsd-puma

Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

It would be a bit annoying having to keep folding the seat forward, then readjusting it to find the perfect position again. p
Probably less of an issue when you have a bulkhead, as in most cases you just flip the seat back until it hits the bulk head.

Isn't really viable on station wagons, as there isn't a bulkhead to fit the lock to.

Probably easier to just make a storage bracket for a disclock, so it can be stored securely on the bulkhead when not on the wheel.

30th Dec 2017 12:48am

GrouseII

Member Since: 29 Dec 2017
Location: Bucks
Posts: 37

Thanks everyone.

Just the sort of feedback I was hoping for. To summarise it seems:

1. It would need blocking in from the sides to avoid brute force.
2. I thought about locking the seat mechanism itself but assumed the thieves could quickly hacksaw through the seat back uprights.
3. Damn it, didn’t realise no bulkhead in a SW
4. The actual lock I was thinking of getting in touch with 4x4 foundry if we managed to get a solid design.
5. Of course, thanks Nitram17 for seeing the wood for the trees … create a fixing for a standard pedal lock and yes I wish the x-eng fitted TDCi

Not too sure of next steps. I could look to protect from brute force but I really like the x-eng plate lock design now knowing my idea would be useless for SWs. I might get in touch with those guys to find out why they don’t provide a TDCi solution.

More importantly, I might do some research to find out how many Defenders are nicked with pedal locks etc in place. Do they really protect or dissuade scumbags. What would be really useful to know so we could design an effective barrier is how do scumbags find it so easy to nick our defenders.

Watch this space … I feel more research coming on before I start bending metal!

Thanks again everyone Grouse

30th Dec 2017 11:59pm

macfrank

Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 1053

Great you‘re still motivated

I have a Safe-T-Pedal which is great but would prefer the xeng plate for convenience. I think they said TDCi owners didn‘t want to drill anymore

Maybe both xeng and those owners changed their mind since then?

As for the lever lock approach, this would be very convenient. And if they had to hacksaw the seat, that would be good enough for me in relation to the lock‘s ease of use. And it‘s always a trade off, isn‘t it?

31st Dec 2017 9:52am

GrouseII

Member Since: 29 Dec 2017
Location: Bucks
Posts: 37

Well, lucky me!

In terms of research to decide what to develop I found a fantastic thread that has done all the leg work.

Well worth a read although leaves you feeling a bit vulnerable and having to spend your hard earned on thieves!

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic14863.html

At least I now understand why people are talking 'layers'

Happy New Year to everyone and may we keep hold of our Defenders through 2018!!

Grouse

31st Dec 2017 6:55pm

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