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Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3787

2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green

LandRoverAnorak wrote:
What puddle? wrote:
But I don't think that's so. JLR are going for high profit margins, but not volume.

I'm not sure that's true. Much has been made of the fact that, despite it's 'iconic' status, the Defender never sold more than about 20k units per year and that the replacement needs to appeal to a wider audience so that it sells 100k units per year to be economic to build. I don't know how that compares to the G or Jeep, although the latter has a wide appeal in a much bigger home market, so I suspect that, at least, is a very difficult comparison.

The reality is that LR are currently making a very desirable family of cars that, on the whole, they can sell all that they can build. The Defender replacement has to stack up against them rather than what other companies are making to justify its' assembly space.

+1.
JLR will definitely be looking to sell a heap more Defenders than the 15K P.A. they were selling before the last "rush" in 15/16.
And yes, I wouldn't be comparing a Jeep with a G Wagon either,..one is quality, one is not. Jeep have a SHOCKING reputation for dealer service/reliability in Aus.
I'm sure that on a worldwide basis, JLR would like to be looking at 100K sales P.A. for the new Defender, and when ya look at Evoque sales, it could be reachable,..who knows,...I guess no-one will really know until we know what it is,
I don't believe there'll be much resemblance to the DC100, simply because there was a very bad reaction to it, when it was released. It was a "new" shape then, not so new now, but I still don't think there'll be too much similarity.
No-one knows anything about the new Defender, but JLR do, and going by recent sales, vehicle acceptance etc, they know what they're doing, and I believe they know exactly where they're going with the "New Defender", which IMHO will be a sensation. Doesn't mean to say We "I" will like it,...I don't think JLR will be too worried about that, because our "preference" was only selling 13/15K P.A., and they'll be looking for a far wider appeal that will sell in the numbers of, and be at least as popular as, their other recent releases.
All only IMHO of course, Pickles.

4th Dec 2017 9:53pm

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

Click image to enlarge

Pickles, I hear you, but given the theme that Land Rover designers have got themselves into (and can't seem to escape from) then, for me, the only way the new Defender is going to look different from the DC100 is if they've outsourced the design! Now left.

5th Dec 2017 1:28pm

DSC-off

Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1438

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

I've not seen them lined up like that before!

Click image to enlarge

It's all looking very bland now.

5th Dec 2017 8:46pm

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

Well, to me, they've become boresville. I mean, look at that Velar! The Evoque is still good, but no doubt the new one will be more streamlined to fit the standard design theme! Yawnnnnn. Look at the headlights, at the skid plates, at the air intakes beneath the headlights, at the grille...all the same! These are people have have spent years at design school, for crying out loud! I've run out of exclamation marks now. Now left.

Last edited by What puddle? on 5th Dec 2017 9:05pm. Edited 1 time in total

5th Dec 2017 8:54pm

Devon-Rover

Member Since: 22 Jan 2015
Location: South Devon
Posts: 919

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Aintree Green

It has all come a bit full circle with motor manufacturer's wanting to have a common 'family face'. Line the ford car line up and you see the common design traits the same as Gerry has done the LR line up.

I once saw a quote from the Original discovery design team and LR wanted the disco to have the square headlights from the freight rover so it was different and couldn't be mistaken for a Range rover.

Watching the video from the jeep launch at least they acknowledge the lineage and what the owners have done to perpetuate the name.

5th Dec 2017 8:54pm

Slideywindows

Member Since: 09 Sep 2016
Location: North Essex
Posts: 1286

Thank you for putting those vehicle photos together for us Mr Puddle.

I never could tell one from the other, on the road.

And I still can't.....

5th Dec 2017 9:53pm

BCdefender

Member Since: 26 Oct 2015
Location: Nanaimo
Posts: 211

+1 on lining all the LR's up like that. Gives some perspective

I have learned to be careful on my opinion of what the new Defender ends up looking like as there are a number of people on this site who did like the DC100.

Having said that, in my humble opinion, why does LR need to sell 100K + units of the Defender if it's the icon model?

Car companies do produce some cars at a loss in order to help with the prestige of the whole line. It seems a bit short sighted to be fixated on making every truck profitable.

Examples:

2005-2013: Bugatti Veyron – £3,887,051 per unit

2001- : Volkswagen Phaeton – £23,655 per unit

2001-2009: Renault Vel Satis – £15,751 per unit.

2004-2009: Peugeot 1007 – £12,947 per unit

2000 – 2005: Audi A2 – £6340 per unit

2001 – 2009: Jaguar X-type – £3945 per unit

1997-2006: Smart Fortwo – £3762 per unit

2006 – 2012: Renault Laguna – £2986 per unit

2001-2009: Fiat Stilo - £2297 per unit

1997-2004: Mercedes A-class - £1214 per unit

Source: https://www.autocar.co.uk 1999 Defender 110
2003 P38
2007 RR SC

"And that's why it needs to be celebrated, because when the Defender goes we'll have lost this pointer to where we came from, and we're really going to miss it."

My build thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic47750.html

6th Dec 2017 12:32am

Ramajama

Member Since: 28 Jul 2016
Location: Heartland, ‘Murica
Posts: 109

The 3 families...

For something thats not supposed to look like a DC100, it looks a lot like the DC100....

6th Dec 2017 5:48am

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

What did I say?
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/ra...nspiration
Though admittedly it's hardly clairvoyance.

New RR?
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/ra...-the-works
What do you think it will look like?

Whatever happened to this idea for a Land Rover MINI rival?
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/ra...mini-rival
Not bringing this out is where Land Rover really started to go wrong - that it could have been badged Freelander. Now left.

6th Dec 2017 4:57pm

Pickles

Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3787

McGovern has spoken to some Aussie Journos on a recent visit to the U.S.
He said that whilst the new Defender "would have no visible rivits" and that "traditional" Defender owners may be disappointed, the company has to move forward. He also said it will bear no resemblance to the DC100, "because we took the mickey on that one"...I haven't got the link, but I'm sure there are some google experts on here who can find it, particularly the reference to the DC100!
Pickles.

10th Dec 2017 12:59am

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

BCdefender wrote:
Car companies do produce some cars at a loss in order to help with the prestige of the whole line. It seems a bit short sighted to be fixated on making every truck profitable.

Examples:

2005-2013: Bugatti Veyron – £3,887,051 per unit

2001- : Volkswagen Phaeton – £23,655 per unit

2001-2009: Renault Vel Satis – £15,751 per unit.

2004-2009: Peugeot 1007 – £12,947 per unit

2000 – 2005: Audi A2 – £6340 per unit

2001 – 2009: Jaguar X-type – £3945 per unit

1997-2006: Smart Fortwo – £3762 per unit

2006 – 2012: Renault Laguna – £2986 per unit

2001-2009: Fiat Stilo - £2297 per unit

1997-2004: Mercedes A-class - £1214 per unit

Source: https://www.autocar.co.uk

I'm pretty sure that the companies involved weren't selling most of the cars on that list just to help their brand prestige. The Veyron and possibly the Phaeton are the only ones that stick out as exceptions but the rest are essentially 'bread and butter' models that have just happened to make a loss. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

10th Dec 2017 9:37am

22900013A

Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3150

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green

Pretty sure the Defender was selling at around 25K a year, not 13-15 as mentioned above. Need I reiterate, they were being made only FOUR days a week, on a SINGLE production shift. The other model lines ran 24/7. JLR could have built more if they so wished, and reduced lead times. They chose not to. Also, since when did Defenders sit on forecourts waiting for a buyer? Almost all of them bar dealer demos were sold before they were even built. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

11th Dec 2017 11:40am

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

It varied quite a lot over its' life - over 36k in '97 but as low as 17k four or five years earlier. In recent years though, until the mad rush of the final full year of production, it was typically around 17k as follows:

2013 17146
2014 17781
2015 23127 (last full year)
2016 6708 (only part of a year)

From an economics point of view, I guess it must have been proportionately and progressively more expensive to build when the Discovery 1, 2 and RRC went out of production, as it no longer had anything to share significant parts with. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

11th Dec 2017 3:51pm

nidge n

Member Since: 04 Feb 2012
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 719

The more I read of the new Jeep, the more I admire the evolution. http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/12/13/201...-good.html

I would be delighted if the defender similarly evolved. I couldn’t stand it to look like the rest of the product range.

13th Dec 2017 8:15pm

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