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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829   
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^^^Skip, given you seem to be the Oracle on these matters, a small hypothetical for you.
I, like many, am looking to improve the handling of the Def. Not to go-cart standard, but improved. I have been keeping my eye on the Alive Eibach lowering springs. Apparently they make quite a difference, which is my aim. My question therefore, to you (or those in the know), is how much benefit do the Alive Springs offer with regard to handling based on the quality of the spring and associated shocks (I'll be upgrading to Bilstein), how much to their reduced ride height and how much to both combined? If the drop is an important factor, I suppose re-raising the ride height with the isolators (for all their comfort and acoustic benefits) is missing the point of buying the Alive springs. Or (final question), would the quality of an Eibach progressive spring with Bilstein damper be good enough that the isolator won't make that much difference if added, but would certainly negate the handling benefits? Hope that's clear 
Ta  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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18th Oct 2017 12:10pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829
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Martin, Reference my preceeding question to Skip, am I right in thinking these isolators thread the top/bottom of the spring coil through the isolator, therefore won't change ride height but will still offer same benefits in terms of noise transfer/rumble etc? Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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18th Oct 2017 12:16pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2665  
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Yes! They are not much thicker than a mountain bike inner tube, so they won't make any difference (maybe 1 or 2 mm) to ride height...
This was my springs - Right hand spring has the isolators on top and bottom. Click image to enlarge Write-up here http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic49065.html or britpart one
good luck  Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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18th Oct 2017 1:02pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829
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Thanks Martin, looks like they make sense. And thank's for the write-p, very positive. You mention towards the end about prop-shaft 'vibes' being gone. Do you think that was the isolator or new springs? Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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18th Oct 2017 1:10pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2665
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Grenadier - I didn't have propshaft vibes before or after. Someone thought I could start getting propshaft vibes because the lower springs (same way as a lift kit causes vibes sometimes) changed the angle of the prop-shaft. However I never noticed any change to proshaft vibe (none before, none after) Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)
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18th Oct 2017 1:50pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829
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Gotcha, thanks for clarifying!
Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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18th Oct 2017 3:01pm |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295 
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Hello Grenadier Oh dear I somehow must have given a false impression... 
I'll tell you what I think to be true. All the brands you mention review well, my 90 had a reworked interior and some cosmetic changes to the exterior, when the customer who had this work done on a virtually unused vehicle, changed his mind, wanting to do the same on a 110, and then needed a 'quick sell', however it was booked in to have the suspension upgraded the week after his decision to sell. Now that upgrade package was to use Alive Springs (new at the time...I don't know what spec) and Bilstein Shocks (just as you have mentioned) in addition, Front Tubular Shock Turrets from Terrafirma and Stiffer (thicker) ARB (Anti Roll Bars) Front and Back. My 90 has a Standard Engine, and No Performance upgrades, it was going to be a big (ish) bill for the previous owner, it was offered to me but I didn't want this done, as all I really wanted was a really good condition late 2.4 90. From what I know, the main question to ask is what are you trying to achieve, if its 'comfort' then Spring Dampening Quality will be a big part of achieving this, Isolators will help (a little) but probably nothing like the effect of the Spring + Shock Specification selected. Building on the quest for 'comfort' sound deadening (IMO) is probably the most significant thing you can do, but this (obviously) changes nothing when cornering. If by 'improved handling' you mean better on a twisty turny road, then you need to get 'stiffer' (as they say). and to achieve that, its a combination of Springs, Shocks and ARB's all collectively asking the Tyre's to work harder, so Tyre Spec, Grip and Side Wall 'compression' will become a factor. It's not cheap to go down this road, but if the type of driving you do, finds you rolling about too much as you fly though the B roads (on the remote stretches left with no speed cameras) then it all might be worth it. Big engine upgrades, or significant 'standard engine tweaks' that results in a 'step change' in performance then I get the need to 'raise the bar' of the Suspension. Equally for those who want to push further off road than the 'standard offer' allows...this too makes sense. Good Luck with your upgrades... The Coil Spring Isolators ANR3060 (as far as I know) are fitted as standard on the Top of the Rear Springs on all Defenders from 83 Onwards... This is the Rear of Mine with both the ANR3060 remaining in place and the ANR2938 'on Top' Click image to enlarge SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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18th Oct 2017 4:04pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2665
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I seem to remember my "old" springs had the isolators at one end when I removed them, supporting Skip's view... Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)
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18th Oct 2017 5:20pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2665
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Actually...
Click image to enlarge This piccie was taken when I swapped the old USW springs to CSW springs., using OEM LR parts. You can clearly see the isolators but not on the actual end of the spring (one coil in) Write-up here http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic13312.html I swapped the USW springs for CSW springs, which gave an improvement in ride quality. Then a few years later I swapped the CSW springs for softer ones as per here: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic49065....oilsprings So yes - OEM springs do have isolators at one end only Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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18th Oct 2017 5:24pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20453
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As far as I'm aware the wrap around type were designed to stop the upper compressed coils on the rear from banging against one another and knocking.
The castellated type, are acutually the main isolating type that have a real tangiabke effect to ride quality, but all of them together have a cumulative effect which is excellent. No Guts, No Glory. 🇬🇧ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ³ó £ó ´ó ¿ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡ªðŸ‡ºðŸ‡¸â›½ï¸ðŸ›¢ï¸âš™ï¸ðŸ§°ðŸ’ª |
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18th Oct 2017 5:34pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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The rest of the shiny new suspension components arrived yesterday and it's now booked in to have the whole lot fitted week commencing 6th November
Click image to enlarge The only thing not shown in the picture is that I've swapped all of the nuts and bolts for stainless equivalents. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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21st Oct 2017 8:57pm |
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| nitram17 Member Since: 08 Jun 2014 Location: newcastle Posts: 2261 |
Hi LRA.....how thick are the discovery rubber isolators when compared to the castleated ones?....as im trying to gauge what i need to bring the alive comfort springs back to standard height......also are the bolts an intergral part of the discovery isolator or can you change them?
I wonder if anyone on here has tried normal height progressive springs on a 90 and now is contemplating the alive set up? |
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22nd Oct 2017 10:59am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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Despite my best efforts, I don't think I managed to hold these square to each other whilst balancing my phone in the other hand
Click image to enlarge In practice, the D2 isolators are about 3-4mm thicker than the D1 ones but they do have the retaining ring built in, so it probably evens out to be the same overall. The bolts are an integral part of the D2 isolators. I've just added stainless nuts and washers. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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22nd Oct 2017 7:23pm |
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| nitram17 Member Since: 08 Jun 2014 Location: newcastle Posts: 2261 |
Thanks LRA......very clear!
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22nd Oct 2017 9:52pm |
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