Mr Fox wrote:

Riverboy wrote:

The laws are there for a very good reason and should stay as they are. The best argument against bearing arms is the USA. Who in their right mind would want Europe to become like them. Just look at Rallymental's picture above.

It is too easy to use the USA as an example of gun violence; however, as proloForêt has mentioned, people on both sides of the argument ignore Canada.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2378037/gun-viol...d-compare/

Canadian gun law and the result of it, should make the American's question where/how they are getting it wrong and, perhaps, give pause for thought as to how the ownership of firearms could be managed more effectively than an outright ban on handguns in the UK.

One word, culture. The Canadians have a much more U.K./European biased culture than the US in terms of law making, liberal politics, education etc. Having worked extensively with both Armed Forces whilst I was serving, their mentalities are poles apart. I was attached to the USMC in Baghdad in '04 and they are by far the most professional and well trained ground troops the US has, when ignoring SF. However, this didn't mean they didn't have some worrying traits, habits, tactics that would appall most European soldiers. Head lower down the food-chain, to Army, then National Guard and then Civilian contractor and things only got worse/more agressive/more cliched. I have a very, very long list of things I witnessed that can only come from culture, a culture beyond that merely of Military Indoctrination. I've been on training sortees private security helicopter flights in which they practiced tactics to throw grenades out of the helo. I've been in the same helos as they've flown under Baghdads Crossed Swords returning to Baghdad for a laugh. I've been in Helos playing rock and roll on speakers. I've been in Thai restaurants playing rock and roll with knocking shops upstairs, right beside the US's main field hospital, Blackhawks landing and off-loading limbless GIs whilst contractors and US Army fought over girls, scenes straight out of a Vietnam war movie. I've seen steroid fueled Marines pump iron wearing shoulder holsters, 'because you never know when they might attack you'. I met southern-state Vietnam Vets straight out of their trailers driving trucks who you could smell had been itching for a conflict they could be involved in since the draft in Da Nang in '69, tooled up to the eyeballs wearing Harley Davidson or regimental t-shirts with the sleeves cut off, cowboy boots on, gringo-tash, greasy trucker cap. I've been invited by a Texan, cigar smoking, twin ivory handle colt shoulder holster wearing, cowboy hat sporting USMC general to come and 'watch the fight' in Ramadi where we sat in fishing chairs on the banks of the Euphrates watching tracer and listening to automatic gunfire as a unit went through house clearances in the town centre. I've been in a USMC Chinook as it left Baghdad for Fallujah in which the rear door gunner asked the pilot (as a guest I was given the spare headset) to test fire his weapon, an M60 (thankfully not a .50cal), which was granted and which he proceeded to fire into Baghdad's Sadr City. I sat in the back of a US ARMY Hummer in Ramadi on a patrol and saw more ammo than my entire Battalion would have got on deployment and certainly entirely unaccountable. I was issued 120 rounds, (4 x30 round magazines), which I had counted out and had to count back in at the end. This hummer had so much I could barely see the guy to my left in the rear. 9mm, 5.56, .50cal. Boxes and boxes. But it's because their SOP if ambushed was to turn towards the direction of threat, let go with as much lead as possible (all 4-8 Hummers in a wolf pack) and drive like hell still firing. I saw one piece of video whilst out there in which the Hummers were patrolling at perhaps 30kmh, were attacked from the flank, turned all arms in the direction and started firing and continued doing so for 3-4 minutes as they drove from the ambush point at 60+km/h. A good 3kms+ of constant fire. list goes on an on. Their culture is of muscle, of might, of fighting, of guns, of shooting first and asking later. Of bandanas and rock and roll, of pretending they're in a movie rather than a professional fighting unit, of image and looking cool rather than worrying about getting the job done as professionally as possible. This extends, imo, to everyday life and as far as the gun toting masses of middle and lower America are concerned, it's no different. All the BS of 'war' and 'heroes' with US Police now wearing military attire on the streets of the US. Guns, guns, guns. And if you have an association with the Mil-it-tar-ree, you're a hero. Free drinks all night in a BBQ shack last year in Dallas because someone spotted my H4H wrist band and discovered I'd served with the USMC. Just nuts. Baghdad more than anything taught me that Churchill's comment that the U.K. And US are two nations separated by a common language couldn't be more true. I discovered I have far more in common with Canadians, but more so Spanish, Dutch, Norwegians etc that I also served with. Just don't get me started on the French. Just joking. So America's gun problem is down to their gun-toting, shoot first, shoot anything, dammit shootings just great fun, culture. Other nations have higher gun ownership than the US but don't have the same problem. Not something I think we'd see here, even if we did have more relaxed gun licensing rules than current. Sorry for the rant. They have a biiiiig problem as evidenced by the shooting of the student last week holding a Leatherman. Very, very sad and it's not going to change soon.  Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

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