 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Looking at new engine options for Defender |
 
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| foxyred Member Since: 16 Jul 2016 Location: Nottingham Posts: 227   
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tdv6 is a lovely smooth powerful engine, But its like a Pheasant always looking for a new way to die.
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2nd May 2017 9:32pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324 
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There was somebody here recently extolling the virtues of 6 cylinder Jag engines. Loads of power, robust and apparently cheap as chips as nobody ever needs to replace them. As a more modern engine, they're also more economical too. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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2nd May 2017 9:35pm |
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888 
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V8 petrol every time unless you want the fuel range of a diesel. This is particularly the case given the current hate towards diesel by those who think they have a clue about running a country. There's an irony that my TD5 90 is excluded from London but I'm welcome to take my 5.7 LS1/6 V8 in.
As you say, cheapest option and simplest too is to slot an RV8 and matching box in it. It won't give you the power of an LS without serious money but if you're not looking for huge amounts of power it's cheap and easy to keep running. You can buy a V8 Auto P38 with a Thor engine for next to nothing and if you're canny you can sell on enough bits to break even on the deal and get the bits you need for free. Convert it to Megasquirt to get rid of most of the wiring and get a controller kit and transfer box adaptor from Ashcroft. Alternatively you can play with the electrics on the P38 but it's not easy to separate them out. You can always match it up to a hydraulic 4 speed ZF though and it will slot in to a Defender with very little modification. Another cheap option and something a bit less usual would be to use a Lexus V8, lots of power and the electronics are pretty much self contained. Depending on your choice of gearbox you may need to get an adapter manufactured though. LS engines are very nice to have but parts are hard to come by (although it's slowly getting easier) in the UK so when something goes wrong it can take time and money to get the parts you need. As an example the idler and tensioner pulleys on mine, especially the idler pulley, are prone to failure in an off road environment due to grit getting into the bearings. If I were to buy one from the US the pulley itself would be about £15, the postage though is nearer £70. As a result I went out and had to find someone to machine the pulley to take a sealed bearing instead. Not as easy or anywhere near as quick or cheap as getting a similar item for a serpentine RV8. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ |
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2nd May 2017 10:27pm |
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| psimpson7 Member Since: 20 Nov 2013 Location: Gold Coast, Qld. Posts: 221  
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1. - Will be the easiest and cheapest
2 and 3 will both be expensive. 3 will be a lot simpler than 2 in a number of ways. for instance the cooling system on an LS is very simple. No modern LR engine appears to have a simple cooling system! You can also buy adaptors to fit the lt230 onto the 6l80e (the 6spd auto commonly found behind recent LS engines) I have just done #3 and am fairly aware of the trials, tribulations and costs involved! The majority of parts will be harder to come by for an LS conversion in the UK than here, and especially in the states. 2001 90 HT 6.0LS/6spdAuto. 2003 90 td5 soft top. 2014 90 XS SW 2.2. |
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2nd May 2017 10:30pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3784 
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LS3 is the way to go, but to be fair, it's horrendously expensive, and of course it's not just the engine, there's the driveline, brakes, transmission etc, a VERY complex job, but ok I suppose if ya've got the dollars & ya really want POWER (Grunt)!!
Apart from that, you could do a good job modifying an early LR V8,..3.5, 3.9,...don't know much about 'em,...will the 3.9 go to 4.2?,..but I guess with the right innards, pistons, heads, camshaft, exhaust etc, you would get quite a lift with a relatively simple instal? Pickles. |
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2nd May 2017 11:27pm |
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| tuesdayfox Member Since: 23 Jun 2013 Location: Sydney,OZ Posts: 129 
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why dont you put the same engine in, being td5 or td4?
do you feel the need for improvement? I drive a puma 2.2 and I find the power plenty enough (I have bas remap.... for me I think, the defender is just unsafe going fast |
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3rd May 2017 3:23am |
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10381
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I went for option 1. GEMS 4.6, which everybody will tell you do megasquirt, but try not to. The hose routing in my picture is now different. She pulls like crazy and I've I'm still running it in. 260 miles so far.
An LS is fine, a mate now throws these in ultra 4 trucks on a monthly basis....it's getting easier as Dave said.  Click image to enlarge |
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3rd May 2017 5:41am |
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| V8GPC Member Since: 18 Jul 2016 Location: Manchester Posts: 289
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I'm lucky enough to have one of the defender 50th's which have the factory fitted 4.0 GEMS and Auto gearbox;
Its definately the nicest Defender to drive. There are plenty of range rovers going cheap as a donnor; but is going to be loads of work. There are a few Japan Imported 50ths for sale (RHD) at the moment on eBay... about £25k mark which seems the going rate at the moment. (it would be more expesnive to import one now - based on the £). The 50ths come with aircon and roll cage as standard; and definately one go down in value. Maybe you want to sell / trade in what you have and go for a factory option. |
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3rd May 2017 6:05am |
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| Miggit Member Since: 09 Mar 2017 Location: Milton Keynes Posts: 72
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Why all the LS3? Wot's wrong with the Chevy 350Ci? way cheaper, about a third of the price... it was good enough for the Overfinch Classic's.... RRC 2.4 TD... it's either a stretched 90 or shrunken 110!!
ML 270CDI |
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3rd May 2017 8:38am |
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| Miggit Member Since: 09 Mar 2017 Location: Milton Keynes Posts: 72
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 If you're going to drop in a Yank, this place will give you an idea of what is available off the shelf in the UK... http://www.realsteel.co.uk/
FYI if you fit a old engine to a new car then the MOT emissions have to meet the requirement for the year of ENGINE manufacture, not the car... and if you put a new engine in an old car it has to meet the standards for the the year the car was made  So that's win win, and the older date trumps everything... So if you were to get a 70's engine then emissions are about 6% from memory and if you can get a 60's then anything goes... as long as it's not burning too much oil!!
If your looking for 250 - 300 BHP then I'd be either looking at a 350CI chevy of a 351 Ford Windsor engine, and personally, run it on a carb, or two, or three 
This page makes for an interesting starting point and gives the emission standards, which I got slightly wrong 
http://www.realsteel.co.uk/usedengines.pdf RRC 2.4 TD... it's either a stretched 90 or shrunken 110!! ML 270CDI |
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3rd May 2017 8:50am |
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888
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1/3 the price ? If you compare second hand with new maybe. It is 70kg heavier and also about half the power and torque unless you throw a lot more money at it... If you take 50+ years of experience with big V8 petrols, their faults and their advantages, then rather than trying to modify what you have you start with a blank sheet of paper, you get the LSx. Having said all that though, while the 350 is a bit more agricultural in nature it is a bloody good and very strong engine. I just think if you're going to go to all the expense and challenges of putting in a GM engine and matching it up to the transmission, any additional cost of an LSx pales into insignificance. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ |
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3rd May 2017 9:44am |
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| Miggit Member Since: 09 Mar 2017 Location: Milton Keynes Posts: 72
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Correct me if I'm wrong but don't LS engines start at around £6500 and go up depending on what spec they are? And all the LS engines are ECU controlled, so apart from all the ball ache that can cause you've also got cats to deal with... more expence as they'll need to be free flow high volume jobs...
Where as you can get get a turnkey 350 Chevy crate motor for around £2000..... that's a lot of change to sort out your transmission hiccups.... not to mention that you could be cat free and legal, with the correct engine choice.
I also notice that Realsteel are selling GM crate engines, and a 333BHP turnkey 350 SB is £4000, so that's still £2500 towards the tranny! And if you went for 250BHP then you could start with one of the S/H engines that they sell for £300 and totally rebuild it for less, hell you could even splash out on a set of stage 3 ally heads and have change  RRC 2.4 TD... it's either a stretched 90 or shrunken 110!!
ML 270CDI |
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3rd May 2017 10:01am |
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| bankz5152 Member Since: 02 Feb 2017 Location: South London/North Kent Posts: 2166 
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What about the Ford Coyote 5L V8? Cheaper engine, plenty of power for a Defender (I think they may even be more economical than the LS) plus apparently you can use the transmission/clutch from the 2007+ Mustangs auto or manual.
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3rd May 2017 10:47am |
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888
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That sounds about right for a Turnkey engine but I think you might be comparing a Turnkey LS1 to a 350 Crate engine ? I'll be honest I've not looked at prices recently as I'm not in the market for an engine but buying direct from the US I've not seen that big a discrepancy in like for like packages in the past. The UK market might be skewed though as I expect supply and demand makes for bigger profit margins. When I bought my engine the exchange rate was much better and the engine (turnkey - ECU) cost me £4,300 delivered and the gearbox another £1,400 and they were both shipped air freight ! The cost of the engine and gearbox was around half the cost of the conversion in the end by the time I'd got a custom rad and oil cooler, exhaust, transfer box adaptor and all the other "stuff" that costs small amounts each but add up when you put them all together ! Not sure what you mean regarding cats ? If you're fitting the engine to a vehicle that requires cats and you're fitting a new engine then the 350 will also need cats. There's no reason at all that you need cats just because it has an ECU, it will be based on the vehicle's age (assuming a new engine) and has nothing to do with the engine or it's ECU. Most ECUs can be configured to run with or without cats and most don't care as the cats are downstream from the sensors. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ |
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3rd May 2017 10:59am |
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