 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Notchy Gearbox |
 
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637   
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My 07 Puma has a notchy box....
Seems to vary between ok to being very notchy, seems to get worse when on a longer drive. I'm thinking about draining and re-filling the g/box oil and also replacing the rear half shafts and flanges (a bit of driveline shunt happening as well, I know the flanges are worn). On Facebook, I had a recommendation to think about modding with a slick shift. I see the thinking, but I'm not getting a huge amount of slop in the gearstick. I know the gearbox splines are a known issue on Puma's, but i have no indication that mine are a problem (yet). My Td5 g/box gave up with the worn splines and i'm actually aware of the alarm bells it was giving me prior to letting go. I'm not getting those warning signs on this truck. My puma has only 73k under her belt. Any thoughts? Cheers Andy |
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28th Jan 2017 8:23pm |
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7905  
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Our is notchy but worse when cold. 1st to 2nd is the worst, tend to pull out of first let it neutralise the push in to 2nd, definitely a drive style
 but learnt to live with it.
Heard mixed reports of slick shift, so undecided if it would help or hinder. James MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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28th Jan 2017 9:24pm |
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| agentmulder Member Since: 16 Apr 2016 Location: Outer Space Posts: 1324 
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Have a read of this if you haven't already:
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic29132.html Doesn't seem to work for everyone, but FWIW it worked really well for me (especially 1st to 2nd issues...) Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants... |
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29th Jan 2017 5:14am |
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7905
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Having read that thread I had the Dealer do it under warranty. It did help but still not brilliant. James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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29th Jan 2017 7:58am |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Thanks, just read the thread, will add to the list, albeit higher up the list
Seems that greasing everything makes a big difference also. I wonder if the mustangs have this issue or not? It would i suppose prove its the selector mechanism thats at fault as opposed to the gearbox and syncros itself. Cheers Andy |
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29th Jan 2017 8:40am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060  
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Seeing a mention or two about the Slickshift, I thought I should contribute. I have had the kit fitted for about six months, and still love it.
However, despite the name, the kit won´t smoothen out a notchy Puma gearbox. The gearbox on my 2012 is probably fairly average, being notchy on the way up to 2nd, particularly when cold, or if you try to rush it. As JOW.. suggests, you have to learn to change slowly. I think the well known "rev hang" even encourages you to do so (the only positive thing about that peculiarity). The slick shift doesn´t help, as it actually shortens the time between disengagement of one and engaging the next ratio. It does however, if you have a touch of mechanical sensitivity (becoming rare these days), give you more of a feel for the right way to select the ratio. It feels more technical, precise, and extremely appropriate to the Defender. It gives you more feedback. In contrast to the modern crop of high tech SUV´s, our Defender´s demand involvement and knowledge to make them work well and keep working. An oil change might well improve the quality of the gearchange, slightly. Gearbox oil doesn´t degrade like engine oil, as it only reaches about 70°, and doesn´t have to absorb any combustion related junk. Stephen 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MT´s, Recaro CS´s, anorak, wellingtons |
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29th Jan 2017 10:02am |
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| Gaz Member Since: 18 Jan 2015 Location: Midlands Posts: 29 
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Is you clutch adjusted properly,Remove the cover from inside the engine bay on the clutch pedal mechanism,cant remember the measurement from pedal to floor,It has been covered on here before,but i adjusted mine and it made a huge difference,now smooth changes all the way up and down the box.I would bet that most of gearshift complaints are the clutch not disengaging enough.Good luck
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29th Jan 2017 4:08pm |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Hi,
Some more great comments. wrt the slick shift, i can see what you mean there, doesn't remove the issue. I can't help but think that given the randomness of the issue, it can't be every defender, and some are worse than others, I think its down to something like the bushes on the g/box as mentioned above, or greasing the ball joints on the gear selector. The clutch not disengaging properly, thats a good idea, and one I hadn't considered, but would make sense, its also a relatively easy check that can be made, same with ensuring the carpet isn't fouling the pedal movement. Cheers Andy |
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30th Jan 2017 6:11am |
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| ter11 Member Since: 28 Oct 2015 Location: Zurich Posts: 26  
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Hi all!
I also have a Defender 90 from 2007 with 60k kms on the odo. It shows exactly the same issues as you describe here: difficult gear changes 1 to 2 and, albeit to a lesser degree, also 2 to 3. Gets worse as gearbox warms up. Quite some slack in the drivetrain, which the rear halfshafts and drive flanges probably contribute to (checked under the rubber caps yesterday: visible play between shafts and flanges). @Gaz: you mentioned that a badly adjusted clutch may be the culprit. That makes a lot of sense. Could you please provide additional input/sources about this solution. However, when I fully press the clutch pedal down, the car has no tendency to lurch forward or anything similar. Also the clutch pedal travel before the clutch bites, is rather long, which makes me think it does well disengage the clutch. What makes me doubt however, is that if I fully press the clutch, the pedal does go all the way down until the pedal touches the floor. My cluch is probably soon due to replace. I get the clack-noise on engine turnoff when clutch pedal not pressed. Very interesting thread... BR Ter |
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30th Jan 2017 9:18am |
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| Erik256 Member Since: 05 Mar 2013 Location: Tallinn Posts: 23  
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I know what you mean Ter11. I have battled the same problem. We have also discussed this issue in other threads previously. My experience was that clutch change did not cure the problem. Also the shims (as per technical bulletin LTB00585) didn't have effect.
I haven't looked at the output shaft, but when the synchros in my gearbox were changed, I asked about it and the mechanic said that there weren’t any play in it. I also have some slack in the drivetrain and this also contributes to the poor gear change, because if you take your time to change the gear, the drivetrain loses it momentum and this produces a noticeable clunk when again releasing the clutch. I have been thinking that perhaps this problem occurs more in early production vehicles. The only other Puma I have ever driven was also from 2007 and its second gear crunched as hell. Also, as far as I know, there have been three iterations of synchromesh for the defenders MT82 gearbox (part no’s LR005140, LR006996 and LR012737). I think I have the earliest one and perhaps the later ones are better. So I you hapen to take your gerbox apart at some point, you may want to see if you can cange the syncros for the latest versions. |
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31st Jan 2017 9:24am |
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| ter11 Member Since: 28 Oct 2015 Location: Zurich Posts: 26
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Hi Erik!
I remember we have had previous discussions on similar subjects here in the forum. Thanks for your contribution! Do I read correctly from your post that you had the synchros exchanged on your gearbox and that this solved the difficult gearchanges into frist and second? Best regards Ter |
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31st Jan 2017 9:35am |
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| Erik256 Member Since: 05 Mar 2013 Location: Tallinn Posts: 23
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I had the synchro’s changed, but for the older type and it didn’t really made much of a difference.
When I had the clutch changed I asked the mechanic to take a look into the gearbox, since it was already out. He said that there were slight wear marks on the 2nd and 3rd gear synchro rings, but in his opinion the wear was so slight that it shouldn’t have had any noticeable effect on the gear change. I had the syncros changed anyway, but for the same older type. Come to think of it I dont know if a newer verson of the synchro would have actually fitted. That’s why I have come to believe that it’s either a design fault or I'm simply expecting too much from the vehicle. By the way the same mechanic reassures me that its normal gear change for a Defender and there is nothing wrong with my gearbox. Why I was so adamant in trying to find the source of the problem is that the same components are used in other models as well and in those applications such issues are not reported (well mostly, Mustang forum is also flooded with post about MT82s poor gear change) I really haven’t looked into the matter after this and have sort of learned to live with it. Also the Defender is not my daily driver. I do still believe the answer is in the synchros. And that it can be rectified either by changing the synchro rings or the whole gearbox. The latter may prove to be cheaper actually |
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31st Jan 2017 10:09am |
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| ter11 Member Since: 28 Oct 2015 Location: Zurich Posts: 26
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Dear Erik
Thanks again for your explanations. Very helpful indeed. Most probably a new gearbox is the economically best solution. Will see... BR Ter |
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31st Jan 2017 4:07pm |
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| ter11 Member Since: 28 Oct 2015 Location: Zurich Posts: 26
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Has anyone tried to improve a notchy MT82 gearbox in a puma with a thicker spec gear oil or some kind of additives, such as liqui moly 5198? The fact that my gearbox tends to shift nicer 1-2-3 when cold, leads me to believe that a slightly thicker oil may be helpful...
Br Ter |
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31st Jan 2017 6:43pm |
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