 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > What if anything did I do wrong? |
 
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| apt100 Member Since: 05 Mar 2015 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 1547   
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Just checking... after engaging diff lock you are sure you had both front wheels spinning and neither rear wheel spinning?
(typo edit) Last edited by apt100 on 28th Nov 2016 9:39pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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28th Nov 2016 9:02pm |
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| agentmulder Member Since: 16 Apr 2016 Location: Outer Space Posts: 1324 
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Also, by diff lock on do you mean lever to the left, or lever to the left and diff lock light on? Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...
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28th Nov 2016 9:22pm |
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| JBC Member Since: 21 Apr 2013 Location: Rutland Posts: 155 |
Lever to left and light on
Jon |
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28th Nov 2016 9:40pm |
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| JBC Member Since: 21 Apr 2013 Location: Rutland Posts: 155 |
Meant to add.... front wheels span but not rears as observed by my partner and evidenced by the tyre marks on the grass
Jon |
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28th Nov 2016 9:42pm |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1432 
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Traction Control on a Defender only works on the rear axle, not all 4 wheels like most other LR models.
So if centre diff lock wasn't properly engaged and one (or both) of the front wheels were spinning, and both the rears were stopped, the TC system would not activate. There isn't sufficient speed difference between the rear wheels to make the system apply the brakes on the fastest one. Trying to gently pull a building uphill, on a wet grassy slope, after digging in, is probably the cause of the problem. Combining all the factors, event with the diff lock in and TC working is a lot to ask. |
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28th Nov 2016 10:04pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20487
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You'd have probably been better on hi range 1st with diff loved on anti stall or 2nd or 3rd low with diff locked. If your course was quite straight I'd have diff locked but not so if it isn't or it'll likely cause even more dig in.
The deciding factor I'd blame myself would by tyre's, an ATR or MTR would have more bite even or grass than those. After having GG TR tyre's which are similar to Contis I'd never go back from at leat a BFG ATR, but in my case I prefer a MTR the KM2. Unstoppable tyre. So in effect I'd blame your rubber, more than yourself.  No Guts, No Glory.
🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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28th Nov 2016 10:21pm |
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| Paulv8 Member Since: 09 Jun 2013 Location: Milton Keynes Posts: 618 
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i think I would have engaged diff lock to start with bud. once you were dug in on road tyres its a bit late. V8 90...WIP
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28th Nov 2016 10:24pm |
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| nosnibod Member Since: 15 Aug 2007 Location: West Midlands Posts: 370 
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Assuming everything is in working order if diff-lock is engaged and a front wheel is spinning then at least one rear wheel must also be spinning - that's the way diff-lock works - drive goes to the front and rear axles.
So, there are a number of possibilities if the rear wheels truly weren't turning at all:- - diff-lock may not be working, despite the indicator light. - diff-lock may in fact be engaged all the time (despite the light) and a rear half-shaft or diff may be broken, leaving the vehicle in front-wheel drive only. On the question of traction control, on a 2.2 Puma at least the TC is 4-channel and works on both front and rear axles, however it does work very differently to earlier systems. In short, it's progressive - you need to hold the revs at 1200-1800 or so for what seems like quite a long time (up to 10 seconds or so). The system will gently apply the brake to the spinning wheel, then if it's still spinning faster than other wheel on the same axle then it will apply the brake harder and harder. I tried this in quite a few circumstances and it was fascinating to watch. What IS off-putting is the god-awful racket the TC makes whilst it's working - it sounds like mechanical torture when in fact it's just the shuttle-valves doing their thing. It's weird the Defender screaming for mercy but with an instructor calmly saying "just hold the revs, give it chance to work..."! In October I took a refresher course at Eastnor Land Rover Experience and gave the TC system a really good workout and it IS counter-intuitive to keep giving it some revs for what seems like ages after you'd have normally given up. It goes completely against what feels right just to hold the revs whilst the TC slwly works it out. Nevertheless that's exactly what it does. On one sharp, slippery right hander I was able to hang out of the window and watch the front-right wheel spinning and then progressively slowing over perhaps six seconds as the TC progressively braked it harder and harder until eventually we started moving again. TC doesn't make diff-lock redundant - TC is reactive and works when grip has been lost. Diff-lock not only makes TC far less likely to be required in the first place, but also halves the problem for the TC to attempt to solve (i.e. it can treat each axle separately). So in the situation described by JBC I would have expected the TC to kick in eventually, diff-lock or not. However it is very tempting on losing forward motion on slippery surfaces to give up immediately to protect the surface and stop digging yourself in. However with later TC systems you need to give them a lot more time to do their thing. Dave Green Goddess - 1998 Defender 110 300tdi |
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29th Nov 2016 6:30am |
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| JBC Member Since: 21 Apr 2013 Location: Rutland Posts: 155 |
I wondered if I needed to give it a bit more throttle before the tc would work. I'll try it next time. Although it started to dig in I was aware of it starting and didn't want to trash the field so stopped. My main concern is that the rear wheels didn't bite despite diff lock being in. Perhaps it hadn't engaged properly as I only locked it once stuck?
Thanks for all your responses. I'll bear them in mind next time I try to move the shelter and let you know how I get on. Regards Jon |
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29th Nov 2016 8:54pm |
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| JBC Member Since: 21 Apr 2013 Location: Rutland Posts: 155 |
Well thanks for all your advice. I followed it to the letter and got traction!
Unfortunately the field shelter maintained its traction too. The defender moved forward about 15m with the front end of the field shelter. The rest stayed where it was. I now have a large pile of firewood! Oops. I have a rebuild project on my hands. Any advice on that too?!  Click image to enlarge |
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2nd Dec 2016 7:38pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3646 
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LOL the romans etc used round things like tree trunks to good effect when moving heavy stuff cross country with a few slaves DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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2nd Dec 2016 7:43pm |
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| ian series 1 Member Since: 17 Nov 2014 Location: south Posts: 3127 
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Oh dear!...
 80" 80" 86" 88" 90"
Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered. |
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2nd Dec 2016 7:45pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8097  
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really? where did you find that out from? Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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2nd Dec 2016 7:53pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443  
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Sorry but I just have to have a little snigger. I used to make a living making the things and seeing how some were put together it's a wonder some of them are still standing.
I've moved a fair few over the years and every time I've been out to move a skid type one I allways go round them with a decent crowbar and a block to lift it up out of the ground and drop it back down on some scrap bearers. Mainly to "unstick" it from it's position and allow it to start sliding easily and also to check its "robustness" to see if it needs any internal bracing. I still have one of the older shelters that are on caster wheels and a rubber skirt all around it. These have a metal frame that is incorporated in the first 3' of the height and have an A frame that can be bolted on either end like below Click image to enlarge When it comes to putting yours back together a couple of decent lorry load straps are quite usefull to keep everything back into place while your putting the fixings in. These fixings are quite usefull and easy to put in with a cordless drill http://www.screwfix.com/p/fastenmaster-tim...pack/56926 You could allways bolster up the corners by nailing some tin straps round the corners and screw them into the horizontal rails at the top and the bottom |
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2nd Dec 2016 8:30pm |
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