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Def90



Member Since: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Kent
Posts: 258

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey
Puma cabin air intake system Please Check
Hi All

I am in contact with L/R customer care in relation to the issue of poor fitting cabin air intake duct that's fitted to the wing and the cabin blower motor, mounted in the engine bay on the bulkhead.

The issue is know, and it has been discussed here but would like Jaguar Land Rover to understand how widespread it really is.

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic47380.html

If we can show to JLR how widespread the issue is with some on numbers it may spur them into some action !!

The problem appears to be on models after the 2012 puma model revision as far as I know and it's the cabin air intake duct that's fitted inside the wing on the passenger side of a RHD vehicle is a poor fit to the cabin blower motor, fitted to the bulk head in the engine bay.

To check your vehicle (engine cold) open the bonnet and from the passenger side RHD, just to the right of the wing top air intake look down into the engine bay.

You should see a black plastic duct that comes from the wing top air intake and if you follow it down and to the right it joins to the cabin blower motor.


Click image to enlarge


At the joint of the air intake duct and the blower motor you should see a gray foam rubber sealing gasket between 5-15mm thick, this is area of the issue.

If you have a similar problem you will probably wont be able to see a gap between the air intake duct and the blower motor or if they are miss aligned from this angle.

This is my Vehicle and appears to be OK from this view.


Click image to enlarge




Click image to enlarge


Make sure the engine its not hot as your hand will be close to the heater hoses.

If you run your fingers around the gray foam gasket away from you towards the the engine, feeling for any gaps or misalignment all the way around the joint of the air intake duct and the blower motor.

If you find a gap it should look a bit like this.


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge




Click image to enlarge


If you do find that you have the same issue Please post a reply here that you have the same issue along with your vehicle model year.

I will pass on the results as a small cross section of Defender owners to the L/R customer care manager I am dealing with and hopefully they will be more responsive, also our very own site Land Rover Customer Relations can review the results.


Thanks in anticipation
Post #569921 10th Oct 2016 7:04pm
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justinp



Member Since: 24 Jun 2016
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 167

United Kingdom 
I've not checked mine yet, but I'm wondering what you are expecting LR customer services to do about it?

Does the air intake duct need refitting, or does it need a new part?
Post #569932 10th Oct 2016 7:56pm
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ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1782

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
If they are trying to ignore badly welded axles which let the wheel fall off, transmission adaptors that strip losing all drive, clutches made of cheese, leaks & corrosion everywhere, I wonder if they will take any notice of another rogue part / fitting issue?
Post #569935 10th Oct 2016 8:06pm
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tuesdayfox



Member Since: 23 Jun 2013
Location: Sydney,OZ
Posts: 129

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Zambezi Silver
mine is the same. looking for solutions....
Post #569982 11th Oct 2016 1:42am
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Zagato
Site Supporter


Member Since: 08 Jan 2011
Location: Billingshurst West Sussex
Posts: 5013

United Kingdom 
I would say at least 70% of the late ones that come into me for undersealing have a leak on the passenger footwell. I have had clients who have had the whole dash board taken out and re-fitted to get to the bottom of the leak (unfortunately the dash and control knobs were not put back properly!), new door seals put on to no effect, horrible peeling sealant of various types plastered all along the bulkhead to windscreen frame gasket and even around the door seals and windscreen rubber Rolling Eyes

Another possible area for water ingress is through the bulkhead where anything is bolted on in that area or where a fastener goes through. If you look at the rear corners of the engine bay/wing top you will see a useless rubber gutter strip that is pushed on to divert water away from the bulkhead!

The problem is that there does not seem to be one cause for the leak although this specific footwell leak is very common, as it can happen on the drivers side as well.

The only thing to do is work your way through the possible causes. Clients have said their vehicles have been cured of leaks from what I have done but I doubt all of them have but this info may help to cross problem areas off the list. This is what I do which may help and be added to by others hopefully who also have insight to a possible cure...

Seal the windows... as per the water ingress guide with ArboMast Autograde Windscreen Sealing Compound.

Seal the false windscreen hinge blocks... with the same ArboMast sealant. They unbolt from the inside, warning sometimes they are holding together the bulkhead and frame at great force and getting them back on can be tricky.

Seal the possible gap in the foam gasket strip behind both hinge blocks with the same ArboMast sealant and run a line of ACF-50 along the entire length of the gasket under the windscreen frame. The foam strip stops and starts at these two points behind the hinge blocks!

Seal all the fasteners on the bulkhead with any wax or water repelling spray e.g. ACF-50. Corroheat, Dinitrol high perfomance wax etc etc. I would not use Waxoyl however as it damages rubber gaskets and is not vibration proof (also just dries and cracks up, in fact I wouldn,t use waxoyl anywhere, there are far better products these days!)

Renew door seals if they have become tucked up out of shape near the mirror hinge.

Check air intake system...

dorsetSmith has just linked this on another thread, VERY USEFUL , shows the areas that can leak and what LR technicians should do about it...

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AHB0...mp;o=OneUp
Post #569995 11th Oct 2016 6:46am
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Morepower



Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 630

New Zealand 
Yes my one is the same..

Tim It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...

2013 Bowler 110 (Sold)
2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold)
Post #570491 13th Oct 2016 6:03am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5816

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Zagato wrote:
I would say at least 70% of the late ones that come into me for undersealing have a leak on the passenger footwell. I have had clients who have had the whole dash board taken out and re-fitted to get to the bottom of the leak (unfortunately the dash and control knobs were not put back properly!), new door seals put on to no effect, horrible peeling sealant of various types plastered all along the bulkhead to windscreen frame gasket and even around the door seals and windscreen rubber Rolling Eyes

Another possible area for water ingress is through the bulkhead where anything is bolted on in that area or where a fastener goes through. If you look at the rear corners of the engine bay/wing top you will see a useless rubber gutter strip that is pushed on to divert water away from the bulkhead!

The problem is that there does not seem to be one cause for the leak although this specific footwell leak is very common, as it can happen on the drivers side as well.

The only thing to do is work your way through the possible causes. Clients have said their vehicles have been cured of leaks from what I have done but I doubt all of them have but this info may help to cross problem areas off the list. This is what I do which may help and be added to by others hopefully who also have insight to a possible cure...

Seal the windows... as per the water ingress guide with ArboMast Autograde Windscreen Sealing Compound.

Seal the false windscreen hinge blocks... with the same ArboMast sealant. They unbolt from the inside, warning sometimes they are holding together the bulkhead and frame at great force and getting them back on can be tricky.

Seal the possible gap in the foam gasket strip behind both hinge blocks with the same ArboMast sealant and run a line of ACF-50 along the entire length of the gasket under the windscreen frame. The foam strip stops and starts at these two points behind the hinge blocks!

Seal all the fasteners on the bulkhead with any wax or water repelling spray e.g. ACF-50. Corroheat, Dinitrol high perfomance wax etc etc. I would not use Waxoyl however as it damages rubber gaskets and is not vibration proof (also just dries and cracks up, in fact I wouldn,t use waxoyl anywhere, there are far better products these days!)

Renew door seals if they have become tucked up out of shape near the mirror hinge.

Check air intake system...

dorsetSmith has just linked this on another thread, VERY USEFUL , shows the areas that can leak and what LR technicians should do about it...

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AHB0...mp;o=OneUp


Thanks Zagato. My old Def was leak free, but this one has water ingress after heavy rain into (mainly) the passenger side footwell, a small puddle, and (a little) into the driver's side footwell, drips onto the right foot when driving. Gonna strip her soon for sound insulation, so shall address all holes (as far as I can find them) at the same time. Thumbs Up Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #570494 13th Oct 2016 6:27am
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Zagato
Site Supporter


Member Since: 08 Jan 2011
Location: Billingshurst West Sussex
Posts: 5013

United Kingdom 
Easier to wear your bike gear in the meantime, will keep you dry and it,s quieter with your helmet Very Happy
Post #570501 13th Oct 2016 6:56am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5816

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Any excuse to get dressed in your leather gear, ahem Whistle Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #570503 13th Oct 2016 7:03am
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Zagato
Site Supporter


Member Since: 08 Jan 2011
Location: Billingshurst West Sussex
Posts: 5013

United Kingdom 
Aww the images Shocked Laughing
Post #570514 13th Oct 2016 8:04am
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Happyoldgit



Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3471

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
ickle wrote:
If they are trying to ignore badly welded axles which let the wheel fall off, transmission adaptors that strip losing all drive, clutches made of cheese, leaks & corrosion everywhere, I wonder if they will take any notice of another rogue part / fitting issue?


Spot on. Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades.
Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW.

[Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc]

http://forums.lr4x4.com

I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic.
Post #570591 13th Oct 2016 12:01pm
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Dave Bellis



Member Since: 21 May 2014
Location: Shrewsbury
Posts: 133

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Keswick Green
Hi Nick,
I have exactly the same problem, as you may recall we have talked about it......I have been in contact with a Nicole Deeming from JLR customer care and talked to her on numerous occasions about this problem...... After numerous visits to Shuckers/Hatfield's in Shrewsbury their response was that they are all the same and there is nothing they can do... I have told Nicola that it is not good enough and she has asked me take my vehicle to Shuckers of Ludlow on Monday....
I am fairly convinced that this is the source of my water ingress problems...I believe the only people who can resolve this problem is JLR but they seem to continually pass you off to the dealers...

Regards

Dave
Post #570635 13th Oct 2016 3:01pm
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Riverboy



Member Since: 16 May 2016
Location: French sector, Earth
Posts: 1288

2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey
No leaks at all in my 2014 Puma 90. We get tropical rainstorms down here and I've not had a drop inside.
Post #570642 13th Oct 2016 3:22pm
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X4SKP



Member Since: 29 Nov 2013
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2295

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
Hello Def90

Ditto here...MY2011...2.4tdci

Hadn't spotted this 'misalignment' issue.
Mine is out enough to get your index finger in (just).

Looking at the blower, it has around 3-5mm of lateral movement possibly available
if the connection bolts are loosened, this however wont get anywhere near to allowing
the connection between the blower and the air intake duct to be corrected.

Mine doesn't leak, if this is a possible route in for water (mine is not going wading anytime soon however)

I have been impressed with the Puma heater / 'blower' unit but allowing general @%$P in here wont help
its long term performance / life expectancy.

This is relatively simple to self correct, which is the route i'm now going down (before winter).

I tend to agree with the sentiments so far, JLR probably wont be interested in this...the 'old Defender'
may now be seen as a 'closed chapter' for them...one that they can walk away from, form some of its
'never resolved' issues.

anyway Good Luck


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge
 SKIP
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html


Last edited by X4SKP on 13th Oct 2016 4:09pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #570650 13th Oct 2016 4:08pm
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Huttopia



Member Since: 23 Feb 2016
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1972

United Kingdom 
No leaks on my 2015 110 but then I can't recall leaving it out. The 90 regularly has a wet passenger footwell.....
Post #570651 13th Oct 2016 4:09pm
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