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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5804

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
mcma1 wrote:
I couldn't say as I have agreed a good discount but it's still Big Cry Put it this way, loads of guys have 2,3, even 4 defenders to play with! I just fancy having the one ultimate one that I can enjoy every day.


With you on that one, and I have no kids. Now just to get it past Mrs Grenadier, for it is she..... Whistle Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #562061 7th Sep 2016 7:15am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17372

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Inigo wrote:
Smart. Should be unstoppable.

I see you are doing the brakes, are you staying with standard axles, half shafts and diffs?


mcma1 wrote:
For now yes, let things settle in. I will then speak to Ashcroft / Quaife perhaps about some options.


Bearing in mind tha ability of the standard 2.4TDCi to destroy diffs, halfshafts, and drive flanges, it will be interesting to see how you fare with standard items. Not too well, I fear.

The auto transmission whill help of course, with less shock loading on the downstream driveline.

I've never really figured out why the TDCi dirveline seems so much less durable than the TD5, given that they are ostensibly the same. I haven't decided if there has been a reduction in materials specification or whether it is the extra torque and different engine characteristics that cause it.
Post #562062 7th Sep 2016 7:17am
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Pickles



Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3784

Australia 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green
V8 over V6?
There is NO substtitute for cubic inches, or as some say, there is no replacement for displacement.
A 6.2l LS3 will be the ultimate V8 for a Defender. It will eat any Jaguar V8, & if ya want any more performance, then ya simply buy an LSA crate engine, which will give you a lazy 600HP, out of the box, or ya can place a blower on your LS3, and ya can have 700, 800hp, whhatever you want,...there's heaps of stuff in the GM "Toyshop", ... providing ya've got the dollars.
The thing about the LS3 is that it's a big "lazy" V8,....it just does its job, .....massive performance, easily, reliably,.....with no effort at all, & if ya want "MORE", it's very easy to get.
I'm confident that the comments of the O.P. when he "puts the pedal to the metal" will confirm my opinions.
Pickles.
Post #562091 7th Sep 2016 9:26am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5804

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
blackwolf wrote:
Inigo wrote:
Smart. Should be unstoppable.

I see you are doing the brakes, are you staying with standard axles, half shafts and diffs?


mcma1 wrote:
For now yes, let things settle in. I will then speak to Ashcroft / Quaife perhaps about some options.


Bearing in mind tha ability of the standard 2.4TDCi to destroy diffs, halfshafts, and drive flanges, it will be interesting to see how you fare with standard items. Not too well, I fear.

The auto transmission whill help of course, with less shock loading on the downstream driveline.

I've never really figured out why the TDCi dirveline seems so much less durable than the TD5, given that they are ostensibly the same. I haven't decided if there has been a reduction in materials specification or whether it is the extra torque and different engine characteristics that cause it.


Blackwolf, do you know if WildCat, Twisted etc upgrade their diffs, half shafts etc when they do the V8 upgrade? I'd be thinking of buying a crate engine and transmission and getting a friend who builds his own caterhams to do the job with me. So I'd be interested to know whether these need to be tackled as well? Also, interesting thoughts on the auto transmission versus manual. Might have to reconsider or at least get more opinions. Would be interesting to know whether staying manual and paying for mechanical upgrades would ultimately be cheaper than going auto but leaving the parts you mentioned untouched. Mmmm. Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #562094 7th Sep 2016 9:40am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5804

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Pickles wrote:
V8 over V6?
There is NO substtitute for cubic inches, or as some say, there is no replacement for displacement.
A 6.2l LS3 will be the ultimate V8 for a Defender. It will eat any Jaguar V8, & if ya want any more performance, then ya simply buy an LSA crate engine, which will give you a lazy 600HP, out of the box, or ya can place a blower on your LS3, and ya can have 700, 800hp, whhatever you want,...there's heaps of stuff in the GM "Toyshop", ... providing ya've got the dollars.
The thing about the LS3 is that it's a big "lazy" V8,....it just does its job, .....massive performance, easily, reliably,.....with no effort at all, & if ya want "MORE", it's very easy to get.
I'm confident that the comments of the O.P. when he "puts the pedal to the metal" will confirm my opinions.
Pickles.


Don't worry Pickles, I was just 'throwing it out there' as I am certainly of the V8 preference. I'd be interested to know what those specialist upgraders (WildCat, Twisted) etc do for the extra bucks, as I have found a supplier for a LS3 Crate Engine, 6-speed manual TKO Transmission and all ancilliaries for approx £10k+VAT.

http://roadcraftuk.co.uk/index.php?route=p...th=162_168

The list price for Wildcat (highlighted just because they're the only ones who advertise an on-line price, not because it is MCMA's chosen supplier) is listed as £29k+VAT although this does include the full 6-speed Auto transmission. So the question is how much would it cost to fit a crate supplied engine and what would be the cost difference if upgrading to to a full auto transmission from the supplied mnual box? I appreciate that there would be warranties covering labour as well as parts/engine, which would not be the case for a self-build, but I wonder if I'm missing something from the pricing? This remains the case for Bowler's 'big brake kit', which at £4200 is over double what the equivalent Alcon kit costs. Mmm. Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #562099 7th Sep 2016 10:00am
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toby9946



Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Hampshire/London
Posts: 96

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 Landmark LE Corris Grey
Grenadier wrote:
blackwolf wrote:
Inigo wrote:
Smart. Should be unstoppable.

I see you are doing the brakes, are you staying with standard axles, half shafts and diffs?


mcma1 wrote:
For now yes, let things settle in. I will then speak to Ashcroft / Quaife perhaps about some options.


Bearing in mind tha ability of the standard 2.4TDCi to destroy diffs, halfshafts, and drive flanges, it will be interesting to see how you fare with standard items. Not too well, I fear.

The auto transmission whill help of course, with less shock loading on the downstream driveline.

I've never really figured out why the TDCi dirveline seems so much less durable than the TD5, given that they are ostensibly the same. I haven't decided if there has been a reduction in materials specification or whether it is the extra torque and different engine characteristics that cause it.


Blackwolf, do you know if WildCat, Twisted etc upgrade their diffs, half shafts etc when they do the V8 upgrade? I'd be thinking of buying a crate engine and transmission and getting a friend who builds his own caterhams to do the job with me. So I'd be interested to know whether these need to be tackled as well? Also, interesting thoughts on the auto transmission versus manual. Might have to reconsider or at least get more opinions. Would be interesting to know whether staying manual and paying for mechanical upgrades would ultimately be cheaper than going auto but leaving the parts you mentioned untouched. Mmmm.


I too am more interested in trying this as DIY to save some cash and also would be a good project.

There are these people I've found as well who will supply a crate engine:

http://www.partsworldperformance.com/ls3-v8-crate-engine-19301326

But after you've added all the gearbox and ancils I'm not sure how much cheaper it would work out. -2015 Defender 90 XS Landmark-
Post #562102 7th Sep 2016 10:05am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5804

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
^^^ Toby, as mentioned above, this lot do the engine, tranmsission and ancils for 10-large..I've not found cheaper.

http://roadcraftuk.co.uk/index.php?route=p...th=162_168 Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #562105 7th Sep 2016 10:17am
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toby9946



Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Hampshire/London
Posts: 96

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 Landmark LE Corris Grey
Sorry Grenadier see what you mean now!

Anyone know what a low mileage 2.2 is worth? -2015 Defender 90 XS Landmark-
Post #562110 7th Sep 2016 10:21am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5804

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
^^^Not a bad price, IMHO. I can only assume that a modern, clean engine with all ancils like this should only take a week to put in, so perhaps another £1500 labour if using a third party. Plus, Also looking at auto transmissions, doesn't seem to be too different from the manual, in terms of price for the unit, but no doubt more issues need to be considered with regards to the wiring, ECU etc. And of course as you point out, there'll be 'cash back' from your lump. Here's mine, albeit I'm at 40k.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LANDROVER-DEFEND...SwU-pXszCg Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #562112 7th Sep 2016 10:30am
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mcma1



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2892

Just to confirm, with the LS3 430hp auto conversion neither Urban or Twisted upgrade the diffs etc, brakes and suspension appear to be it. I am only having the the engine and gearbox fitted by Wildcat as i will be upgrading the diffs etc when i get it back home, i want to do this myself with my usual guys. You can get the crate engine for around 4.5k, gearbox i am not sure, maybe 6k? It likely i will get a package from Ashcroft, have been speaking to Dave there...

Console setup moved on, may add some alloy grab handles on it? Would have them covered with the same perforated leather i have on the Ab door handles, just a quick idea


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge


Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated Mr. Green  Andy

2014 Fuji 110 SW LS3
https://www.defender2.net/forum/post751233.html#751233

2014 Corris 110 SW
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic40056.html


My old Xtech 90 build..
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic15681.html

LS3 V8 build...
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic49051.html
Post #562113 7th Sep 2016 10:31am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5804

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Ooo, like that. One rreason I'm not a fan of the auto is the 'look' of the upgraded tunnel/cubby etc that most seem to put in. Now this would get me re-thinking.

So to clarify, when I see WC's list price, that includes sussies (and I assume ARB, Dampers etc) and a big brake kit? Or is that just what you've agreed? And I understand re the diffs, and as far as I'm concerned, the sussies and big brake set up, whose parts amount to just £3500 for B6s, Alive springs, ARBs, and Alcon/Ap 4-pot brake kit. The four corner upgrade surely wouldn't take more than a week all-in to fit and should be comofrtably DIY? Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey


Last edited by Grenadier on 7th Sep 2016 10:38am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #562114 7th Sep 2016 10:35am
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toby9946



Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Hampshire/London
Posts: 96

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 Landmark LE Corris Grey
Very nice looks more OEM with the grab handles IMHO -2015 Defender 90 XS Landmark-
Post #562115 7th Sep 2016 10:35am
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mcma1



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2892

The V8 WC package is Engine and box only. i am getting the BBK (AP 6 pot) made up by Ian at IRB, circa 4k, suspension was circa £1.5k for all the bits. Just been in the insurance broker with all the invoices, this should be interesting Big Cry Andy

2014 Fuji 110 SW LS3
https://www.defender2.net/forum/post751233.html#751233

2014 Corris 110 SW
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic40056.html


My old Xtech 90 build..
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic15681.html

LS3 V8 build...
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic49051.html
Post #562119 7th Sep 2016 11:03am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17372

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Grenadier wrote:
Blackwolf, do you know if WildCat, Twisted etc upgrade their diffs, half shafts etc when they do the V8 upgrade? I'd be thinking of buying a crate engine and transmission and getting a friend who builds his own caterhams to do the job with me. So I'd be interested to know whether these need to be tackled as well? Also, interesting thoughts on the auto transmission versus manual. Might have to reconsider or at least get more opinions. Would be interesting to know whether staying manual and paying for mechanical upgrades would ultimately be cheaper than going auto but leaving the parts you mentioned untouched. Mmmm.


I'm afraid that I have no idea, but there are undoubtedly people running big engines with many horses through standard transmissions. I don't know how much those vehicles are really used, though.

My concerns with the Puma trnasmission stems from the fact that I have been running Land-Rovers since the 1970s, bought a new TD5 Disco 2 on 2002, and bought a Puma in 2010. Now all these vehicles have had similar amounts of use, been used for similar purposes, towed similar weights, and done similar mileages (about 200,000 in the case of the D2 and the Puma). The Puma is on its third set of rear halfshafts 4th set of rear drive flanges, third rear diff, second front diff, and secodn front halfshafts. It is now running a full Ashcroft driveline, with ATBs front and rear, HD halfshafts F&R, HD CVs, HD flanges all round, and HD ring and pinion in the front. These have now lasted longer than all the OE parts combined and I cannot recomment them highly enough, well worth the expense and effort (actually they're cheaper the genuine Landrover standard parts).

The TD5 Disco, which has down an incredibly similar amount of work and mileage is totally original, even to the original 14-year-old rubber doughnut on the rear propshaft. Now I know that there are those who say that the Disco2 driveline is stronger than the Defender, but the difference is ridiculous!

If I was to do an engine implant such as an LS3 (and it is tempting) I would definitely go for an autobox now, rather than manual. I think that a good auto must be kinder to the transmission since it will (or should) change gear very smoothly and with power on, so that the transmission won't get the power - no power - power back on shockloadings that manual changes can impose. For axles I would definitely either go all Ashcroft, or even consider going down a re-axle route, maybe DANA or similar.

An LS3 powered, auto, portal-axled 130 would be nice!
Post #562128 7th Sep 2016 11:54am
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mcma1



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2892

good info ^^^

they appear to ignore the space to the left of the transfer lever so i am hoping i can squeeze a BMW E39 roller tray in there...


Click image to enlarge


Thats enough of the CAD pictures.... :oops:

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated Mr. Green  Andy

2014 Fuji 110 SW LS3
https://www.defender2.net/forum/post751233.html#751233

2014 Corris 110 SW
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic40056.html


My old Xtech 90 build..
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic15681.html

LS3 V8 build...
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic49051.html
Post #562147 7th Sep 2016 1:13pm
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