 | Home > Off Topic > Vehicle stolen this morning..... |
 
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5804   
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"I also fail to understand how it is that the designers of such systems fail to anticipate or engineer out such obvious security weaknesses. Do they assume that all vehicle thieves are stupid?".
Far from it. The problem is (thankfully) the scientists and engineers don't have a thieving bone in their body, so don't think like a thief. Hence their lack of forethought. They need ex tea-leaves working for them. Not smash and garb types, but the boffin thief. Much like corporations using reformed hackers to attack their firewalls. The problem is that the tea leaf probably earns more from stealing than he would working for Porsche, assuming they actually employed him given his (likely) lack of a formal education or CV. But then there has always been a disconnect between the engineer/scientist and common man. Take the SA80. Created in a lab. Beautifully balanced, wonderfully accurate, precision weapon system. But useless in the field. Too complicated, made of tin, fallible to a micron of dust. For many years the best weapons, the simple, effective,moo bust weapons, were designed by ex-servicemen who understood the requirement for something that could be bashed around the cold and wet of Sennybridge and work equally as well in the hot dust of the Middle East, with some submersion in the rivers of Belize along the way. A chap in white lab or brown engineering coat, who would only ever take the rifle to a range in perfect conditions, did not understand this, so didn't design it in. The Kalashnikov and M16 require the removal of three, large working parts to field clean them, whereas on the original SA80 it was 10, with two parts as small as couple of mm in length. Try not dropping that in the mud when your fingers a frozen solid....  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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24th May 2016 10:53am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060  
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Funny you should mention Kalashnikov. I was thinking thatīs just what I need to protect my property in future.......
So very true that, particularly in this high tech world, it takes a criminal to outwit one. Sad world, we live in. 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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24th May 2016 6:20pm |
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| miker Member Since: 13 Sep 2015 Location: Surrey Posts: 1763  
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I'm an engineer now, but spent my formative years fixing cars and cursing the designer that put THAT bolt in the location that you could only reach with one finger and needed torquing to 150lbft! It's amazing how often I have similar arguments with colleagues. "We need to stop the equipment from doing X & Y" "But the operator isn't meant to make it do that" "They'll find a way, and then it will get broken" "But they're NOT MEANT to do that!" "If we can think of it, they will do it! |
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24th May 2016 7:36pm |
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| Huttopia Member Since: 23 Feb 2016 Location: West Midlands Posts: 1972
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It is always a compromise. I manage both r and d and manufacturing for a medical device company and was brought in to stop the arguments between r and d and ops. 'You designed it badly vs you don't make it to drawing' is a well rehearsed debate. It is very rare to achieve beautiful functional robust easy to service / repair product design. There is always compromise. Keyless entry is but another example of the victory of marketing over operational people. Be careful what you ask for!
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24th May 2016 10:03pm |
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| miker Member Since: 13 Sep 2015 Location: Surrey Posts: 1763
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Another classic is "well it fits on my model"!!
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24th May 2016 10:57pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5804
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Massively
 sorry, but here are some examples.
The AK  Click image to enlarge And M16
Versus the SA80 (note at the top of the photo the rectangular block - the bolt carrier assembly - and the two tiny pins to the right hand side. It's not that other weapons don't have them, the M16 does, just the requirement to take them out versus not, for a quick, basic field clean) Click image to enlarge In defence of engineers, they can get it right as with the two examples below. The difference is that these are made by very, very well established gun manufacturers such as FN, who have years of experience and understanding. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge That's not to say that the Royal Small Arms Factory and subsequently the Royal Ordnance factories didn't, it's just the focus seemed to be wrong in creating something too perfect, there was obviously cost cutting in materials (hold and touch the metals and plastics on thr SA80 and compare it with other similar systems and it is quite a difference) and then production was unsettled by the closure mid development of SAF, and the amalgamation of RO into what has ultimately become BAE Systems. It is much maligned, certainly as a field weapon, but as a weapon in perfect conditions it was exemplary. Beautifully balanced (Bulpup was fantastic, IMO) light weight, no recoil and with (up until mid Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts) the best general issue infantry sight bar none. But things have moved on, the internal working parts were addressed and improved by H&K and continued development since I retired has added laser sights, picatinny rails, different magazines (always a concern) etc. As far as I am aware, much, much improved. The one issue is that it can only be used in the Right Handed mode, which means Left Handed recruits would have to be forced to use it in an unnatural position, which could only risk unsettling their body position and ultimately disturb their effectiveness with the weapon system. Not all, perhaps, but certainly some. On a range I'd use an SA80 A2 any day (from a selection of general service weapons). For field work, probably the Colt M4 Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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25th May 2016 7:15am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060
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Two brief anecdotes to round off this story.
1. On Monday I returned from our UK trip, and caught up with my business emails. Amoungst them was a speeding ticket that the car pool office passed on to me (as is routine). Never a joy to digest, and immediately I felt the naughty boy guilt as I opened the attachment, as one does. 
Until I looked at the picture, and realised it wasnīt myself or any one in my family for that matter, lit up behind the wheel! Looking at the date and time, I realised we now have a picture of the thieving scum, and a clear indication as to which direction they were heading. Not that the speeding fine will be an issue for the gentleman, or the fact tthat he was on the phone at the time, but it sure was cause for great amusement in the office, and is a great help to the police 
2. On two occasions during the investigation and discussions with the police and the works security, I was told that it was hard to understand why the thieves took the 911. The officers cheerfully suggested they would have personally opted for the Defender. I saw the funny side of it, and thanked them for the complement. However, it has prompted me into taking the whole vehicle security issue alot more seriously. 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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11th Jun 2016 10:54am |
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| Riverboy Member Since: 16 May 2016 Location: French sector, Earth Posts: 1288 
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Clearly we all need speed cameras on our driveways
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11th Jun 2016 11:30am |
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| Projectblue Member Since: 22 Nov 2011 Location: Devon Posts: 1096
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I was at a conference last week and one of the keynote speakers was about car security and how manufacturers are suddenly having to work at securing the vehicles because they have been caught out so quickly by the thieves.
It takes millions to create something that can be undone with less than a thousand pounds of kit that can then replicate for a few hundred. Slightly off topic, be careful of the new card scanning on your bank cards. People are crowd surfing in busy places like football stadiums/concerts with card machines to read your contactless cards. Do a 100 people at Ģ20 each. No contact, no violence. Most people don't even notice  New project and it's green: www.projectoverland.info |
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12th Jun 2016 12:18pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5035 
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You can get wallets for cards to stop it being wirelessly stolen
 Mike |
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12th Jun 2016 9:48pm |
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