 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > ABS/ Traction Control - was it standard on the Puma 2.4? |
 
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| Jukathy Member Since: 25 Jan 2015 Location: Berlin Posts: 170  
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Others cannot see him of course. Only a huge grill and big Land Rover badge in their rear window...
It's his thoughts. |
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12th May 2016 12:40pm |
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| wyvern Member Since: 13 Dec 2009 Location: Cornwall Posts: 2098  
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I bought my 110 XS as it had ABS as a few times in my previous TDI & TD5 have locked the breaks and slid on a motorway when something happened in front of me and needed to stop quickly - having said that (touch wood) I have not had to put the ABS to use in the 9 yrs Ive had this one, other than me braking hard on a roundabout and one wheel being on a wet white line ...
As a Nurse, Ive spent many long working days looking after people who have been involved in road traffic collisions and, personally, feel that is should be fitted to all vehicles - you may be the best driver in the world and have the reflexs of a gazelle, but - as was said above, it may be that you save your life or save someone else by the safe and speedy shedding of speed when needed most. TC on the other hand has been used a few times in real anger when climbing dirt roads fully loaded - the TC kicks in and I just keep the revs in the same place and hay-ho, the wagon walks its way up with no effort! I had a great day instruction with the Landrover Experience team recently as part of our 4x4 response training and it has been invaluable in refreshing my memory on how good these driving aids are. I dont think that LR will be making any vehicles with out either in the future as these are now common safety features on just about all new cars. just my thoughts! Poppy - TDCI (Puma) 110XS 2.2 - Camper conversion - see the build here - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56530.html Elgar -TDCI(Puma) 110XS Dormobile - now sold Devon & Cornwall 4x4 Response - DC126  |
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12th May 2016 2:42pm |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 913 
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I'm having an educated guess but ABS and traction control was only 'Standard' from MY14 Onwards before that it was a fitted on XS and an option on the rest.
I think it was that year anyway as my poverty spec '14' has ABS/TC and my friends Poverty spec '63' doesn't And IMHO the Difflock ETC combo makes a fairy formidable off-road combination. |
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12th May 2016 5:23pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17327 
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I don't have ABS on my County-spec 2007 Puma, and don't want it. On an off-road vehicle it is more of a nuisance than a blessing and can be downright dangerous at times. On road it is no substitute for good defensive driving, and can actually increase stopping distances in snow. It is also one more (expensive) thing to go wrong.
Like most other modern driver aids, by de-skilling the task of driving it encourages barely competent people to drive outside their abilities. I accept that many other folk will have a different opinion though! |
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12th May 2016 5:51pm |
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| agentmulder Member Since: 16 Apr 2016 Location: Outer Space Posts: 1324 
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So, yeah...
I dont have it  / 
Out of interest, what are aftermarket installations like $-wise? Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants... |
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13th May 2016 2:05am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060  
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 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTs, Recaro CSs, anorak, wellingtons |
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13th May 2016 6:23am |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2633  
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like any other tool, it is the user who determines the outcome of its use  --
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ Last edited by Naks on 13th May 2016 7:07am. Edited 1 time in total |
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13th May 2016 6:35am |
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| YorkJ Member Since: 01 Sep 2015 Location: York Posts: 6 
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I'd have to agree with you, i've gone from driver aid mad corsa and astra VXR's and RS focus to a county spec defender 2007 puma. which as a driving car is far better than the above mentioned at least for the respect of understanding how to actually drive with out being reliant on the aids!! as many are nowadays. |
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13th May 2016 7:01am |
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| o4dn Member Since: 08 Jan 2010 Location: South West Posts: 538  
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if ABS was such a requirement, I reckon LR would have made it standard in the first place - Blaming on the customer (or all 4x4 guys for that matter) for a (lack of) feature that is offered as a (paying) option on the Defender but standard on any other car from any other brand for years sounds slightly unfair. Following your logic, a Defender is not pedestrian friendly, no matter what, even with ABS, so we should all just stop driving them immediately! “A Land Rover immobilized is a moral defeat for the driver and bad publicity for the vehicle, […] it's up to you to do justice to your Land Rover!” - Land Rover Driving Technique. -- 2009 2.4 Puma Defender 90 SW 1979 Land Rover Series 3 88" |
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13th May 2016 7:42am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17327
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The essential difference with ABS though is that few vehicles (if any now) have the facility to turn it off when appropriate. So in the circumstances where ABS is a menace, the driver's job becomes unexpectedly far more difficult. An example being a failed hill climb when a quirk of the ABS can prevent the brakes from applying. I'd rather not have it all. |
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13th May 2016 7:53am |
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| Naks Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Stellenbosch, ZA Posts: 2633
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I've had plenty of failed hill climbs and not a single time was ABS an issue.
The only time it could become an issue is when you need to do an emergency stop on gravel, but that only happens when you're driving over the safe limit anyway. like I said, workman - tools... -- 2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear 2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged
Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9 Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ |
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13th May 2016 9:04am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17327
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Note - "can", not "will". So you've been lucky sofar, stand by for a 'laundry' moment the first time you press the pedal, it goes rock-solid, and the brakes don't apply. Last edited by blackwolf on 13th May 2016 4:06pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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13th May 2016 9:09am |
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| jimbob7 Member Since: 06 Jul 2013 Location: uk Posts: 2055 |
Not viable,1200 (2200 from landrover) for the pump alone +ecu +4 wheel sensors + modified dash + ABS brake cylinder and servo (and extra brake line) + rear stepper rings (300 each x 2) I think, an ABS front axle with ABS halfshafts. (The sensors pass thru the axle on the front and "read" the halfshaft). I also don't like ABS....not just coz I fitted a new pump either  ! Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5. |
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13th May 2016 12:41pm |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 913
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Ok to take this further beyound a potential merry go round.
If you are to take the view that ABS is going to hinder off road driving then you shouldn't be using the brakes but the gears to control the vehicle and it's direction, you are driving it by the throttle. Strictly speaking you will only need the brakes to come to complete halt from a minor speed. You shouldn't be going fast enough to have the system think you need ABS assistance so when you brake to a halt it will act like a non ABS equipped defender. NEVER have i had my 110 offroad when i have been out of control enough to think ohh golly i have the abs stopping the wheels locking up, as if they have locked up then that means you have lost control of the situation anyway and that is bad driving technique. As for your point on failed hill climbs as yourselves this. if the hill is that steep that backward sliding will occur at a rate when there is differing wheel speeds to warrant ABS operation then then: A) there isn't enough traction to hold the vehicle in place and ANY type of vehicle will slide. and B) you will have a system keeping the wheels turning so you have control rather than a quickening decent back the way you came. So again back to correct driving technique would suggest that you haven't picked the right route and shouldn't of gone there in the first place. A core teaching point is explaining the capabilities of the vehicle and then through use of experience in a controlled environment the candidate will be able to understand what is a sensible option and when not to pick a line where you could end up in said above pickle. Arguing blind that ABS has no place off road is very naive. I might suggest you try the newer defenders for a time and be taught how to use the vehicle correctly. With correct judgement and terrain choice you won't end up killing yourself. |
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13th May 2016 3:39pm |
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