Home > Puma (Tdci) > slap around the head with a wet sock ..... |
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Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298 |
if anyone say's it's me I'm gonna go get a dirty old smelly old was sock and slap it around someones head.
jumped in the car this morning at about 10.30am circa 3deg C. waited for the glow plugs to go out and plumes of white smoke for about 5 seconds. then as quick as it started it stopped. drove about 500 yards and stopped with engine off for about 3 - 5 mins. started engine again and it was sweet like you'd expect a decent modern engine to behave and continued to do so for the next hour or so with various short(ish) journey of about 3 miles? no injector knock, just sweet? this starting issue seems to have been getting progressively worse but not just first thing in the morning but also in evenings when it may have been stood still for 2 - 3 hours? it never used to be like this so something is definitely getting worse. the obvious might be glow plugs but I'm sure it's not that and I'm sure it's linked to the injector knock noise I've always experienced on / off? any thoughts? |
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10th Jan 2016 12:15pm |
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custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20347 |
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10th Jan 2016 12:18pm |
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Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298 |
Yep. That's about how I feel about it only probably a shed load more so.
What a pile of f in pants. My def is like new -- she1te! |
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10th Jan 2016 12:46pm |
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Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971 |
Tell you what, I'll buy your Defender off you. Cash sale, I'll come and pick it up, then you can go and buy some clean dry socks. I'll even take you to the shops to get the socks. And as a sweetener for the deal I'll bring a pair with me, I got some new ones for Christmas, so you have something dry to wear to the shops to get your replacement socks.
Give that your Defender is clearly falling to bits then I think a price equivalent to 10 pairs of socks would seem reasonable? I might stretch to 12 depending on how I'm feeling. That's exactly how mine behaves. |
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10th Jan 2016 12:57pm |
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landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5695 |
I used to hate reading these threads, but now I love them. I feel so much better having hot rid of the turd time bomb that is a Tdci. Thanks Caterham, keep them coming.
Andy. |
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10th Jan 2016 1:55pm |
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Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298 |
Riccarton, fuelling issues are exactly what I suspect. Although as you've suggested i'm not writing off the glow plugs just yet.
I've disconnected the cht sensor and will see how it goes. I'm assuming this isn't likely to cause any problems in the short term? Does anyone know what resistance value this should have ? Thanks very much Riccarton and glad to be keeping some entertained at my misfortune |
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10th Jan 2016 3:30pm |
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ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1780 |
Are you sure there's something wrong?
Is it just not a cold morning / cold DPF (or whatever that ceramic honey comb filled lump is in the down pipe of the exhaust) plus the humidity of the outside air? Park it somewhere warm overnight - lounge? and try it in the morning! Keith |
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10th Jan 2016 3:37pm |
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Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298 |
Thanks Keith but having had it 5 + years and i'm pretty sure it's a problem as never seen plumes of white smoke before - steam / condensation before not smoke.
Thanks for the suggestion tho. |
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10th Jan 2016 3:43pm |
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Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
Taken from another post with similar symptoms on this very subject, http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic33691....orryman100
With the wet weather we have been receiving with the high humidity then the white smoke is normal on start up due to the low temp and high moisture levels in the air. As the ECM relies on the CHT sensor for the block temp to adjust the fuelling when starting disconnecting the CHT just exasperates the issues you are receiving as the ECM defaults to stored values. JMTW :thumbsup: Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated |
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10th Jan 2016 4:07pm |
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Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298 |
Lorryman there is no question about your knowledge on such matters but not being here to see the exact symptoms your unfortunately having to rely on my poor descriptions.
The white smoke of recent is very different to what I've experienced during previous winters ie the White 'smoke you see from most cars in the winter when cold. This is more a kin to what you'd see years back when people put a dose of redex into their carb to clean things. Granted it's not so cold but the def has been stood for numerous hours today while trying to assist 80+ year olds that fall over in front of my house cracking their head open and bleeding everywhere while waiting 20+mins for an ambulance while working on the central locking which is still struggling to operate with the mechanisms disconnected from the solenoid Anyhow car all washed up door card in garage and CHT sensor disconnected. Took for a drive and: A - no smoke B - no injector knocking Drive as I would have expected a cold modern diesel to? Coincidence perhaps, too early to tell if this is the problem yes. Will leave it's disconnected for the next few days and see how it goes. As above if someone can provide some data on resistance values against temp it would be much appreciated. |
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10th Jan 2016 4:35pm |
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Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
The reason for no smoke and less rattle/clatter is due to there being less fuel in the burn on start up as the ECM is now using fuelling temp values as the CHT is disconnected, not an issue with the temps we are getting plus the Puma engine is direct injection which means that the glow plugs are not really needed down to about -20 C.
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10th Jan 2016 10:03pm |
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Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
Wayne, when you say Injector Knock, what exactly do you mean? Also how did you come to this conclusion did you use an oscilloscope on the injector circuit or a stethoscope?
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10th Jan 2016 10:08pm |
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Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298 |
Hi Brian
So the sound to me is like how I would have expect a petrol car to sounds years gone by when the timing was out under load (pinking) which I suspect in the puma case is the knocking noise you describe above due to over fuel. When a friend of mine mentioned the cht sensor I immediately thought of the single wire going to this that I have often was very stiff and thought it might be green under neath with corrosion (having had a plug on the rear loom drop off twice due to green corrosion I been suspicious of the wiring). Having had another look at the loom at cht sensor I don't think it's as bad as I first thought. But as the sensor could be faulty and I guess telling the Ecm to increase fuel because it thinks it's cold I thought i'd disconnect it. No expecting it to drop below -20 just yet so its tied up out of the way while I see how things go. Any how - how are you keeping? |
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10th Jan 2016 10:19pm |
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Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
Doing fine, at work and a little bored. I think you would benefit from the latest inventions for the issues you have been experiencing, they range in price from a few pence to about £30 from here
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10th Jan 2016 10:28pm |
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