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o4dn

Member Since: 08 Jan 2010
Location: South West
Posts: 538

2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alaska White

Engine misfire

Hi all,

I am experiencing engine misfire under very specific specific circumstances:

- run at approx ~2000 rpm in 2nd or 3rd gear
- release throttle until engine revs at ~1750 rpm
- Apply a very gentle throttle again up to 2000 rpm

In 2nd and 3rd gear, at best I get no acceleration and a muffled sound engine, at worse the engine misfire around ~1800 rpm.

The problem is that I drive mostly like that, gently with throttle (to save fuel) and around ~2000 rpm (since it's where the engine gets its max torque) so that really is an annoying problem for me.

Anybody else experiences that?

I took the car to a LR dealer already for that but they did nothing but reinstall the software update (which did not cure the problem in the first place). I have been told that there was no error reported, so no problem, and that no error would be reported unless the MIL shows up (which it didn't), and that I should wait and see. But the problem does not go away by itself, it's still there....

Any idea what could be causing that? Maybe it's by design and all I need is to get used o it, but I do not remember that happening when new (the car has just 4000km)

22nd Feb 2010 8:01pm

dgardel

Member Since: 30 Nov 2008
Location: Veneto (Heart & Head)
Posts: 3586

See the left external mirror (exhaust side). if you can see smoke when the problem appears, 99% the cause is the EGR valve..... Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition

IID Pro MV License

22nd Feb 2010 9:06pm

o4dn

Member Since: 08 Jan 2010
Location: South West
Posts: 538

dgardel wrote:
See the left external mirror (exhaust side). if you can see smoke when the problem appears, 99% the cause is the EGR valve.....

Hey Daniele!

I do not think I've ever seen smoke.

Glad you say the EGR might be a possible cause because I did mention the EGR valve to the dealer, who promptly replied that it would raise an ECU error and set the MIL on (the logic of the dealer is no MIL so no error, therefore no problem, ie I am not sure he believes me

).

Problem, there no other dealer in the area

22nd Feb 2010 9:16pm

alantd

Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 1513

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green

Mine's going back in for a similar problem. Fortunately my MIL did come on for a couple of days. Lets see what they say. One that started out as a 2.4 TDCi 110 XS
+ New Defender 110 First Edition

23rd Feb 2010 11:27am

ralton

Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Durban
Posts: 153

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Zermatt Silver

mine does it too, with black smoke if i hold it at about 2200rpm...
What is an EGR?, what does it do? How bad is it if left alone? etc...
Cheers,

23rd Feb 2010 12:08pm

o4dn

Member Since: 08 Jan 2010
Location: South West
Posts: 538

just checked again, there really is no smoke that I can see in my case.

23rd Feb 2010 6:41pm

alantd

Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 1513

I can't see smoke either.

My guess is it's something in either the fuel metering valve, the fuel pressure relief valve or the High Pressure rail control valve. All have had dealer-notification issues logged with LR. The HPR control valve, especially is the one that is most likely.

The recall notice is:
"When driving following a cold engine start where the engine coolant temperature is <5>35° and a gear change is made at an engine speed of
>2000rpm there is a possibility that the High Pressure rail control valve can stick and cause high
rail pressure, which trips a diagnostic, relieves the rail pressure causing the customer to see an
engine Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) light on with restricted performance and P1169 and/or
P0089 Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) stored in the Powertrain Control Module (PCM)."

Their solution - put the engine patch in. However, they've either not done it (when they say they had) or they've done it incorrectly because mine still has these symptoms. One that started out as a 2.4 TDCi 110 XS
+ New Defender 110 First Edition

24th Feb 2010 8:34am

alantd

Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 1513

ralton wrote:
mine does it too, with black smoke if i hold it at about 2200rpm...
What is an EGR?, what does it do? How bad is it if left alone? etc...
Cheers,

Ralton. The EGR refers to the Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve. It's a trick to reduce emissions by feeding the exhaust gasses back into the intake. However, it has to be precisely controlled because it has an effect on quality and quantity of air getting to the engine. If the valve sticks then it runs out range for the ECU and you get rough performance (is my understanding).

Some people have blanked off the EGR to get more power (better quality air?) but they've encountered illuminated MIL lights as the engine thinks it is running out of tune.

Black smoke out the back does imply it is linked to the EGR - probably worth getting your dealer to look into it if it is still in warranty. One that started out as a 2.4 TDCi 110 XS
+ New Defender 110 First Edition

24th Feb 2010 9:10am

ralton

Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Durban
Posts: 153

Thanks alantd
I have already taken it to my original dealer, but they updated the software (which didn't fix the problem). I have recently changed dealers, so will take it in for an oil change service in a about 5000km time and mention it to them...
Cheers

24th Feb 2010 10:20am

o4dn

Member Since: 08 Jan 2010
Location: South West
Posts: 538

Problem still present, seems definitely related to the temperature, ie the car is a pleasure to drive when cold, at first start, and after a few minutes the problem appears, getting worse as the weather becomes warmer (well, that's my impression at least). But no smoke that I can see.

Took it twice to the dealer, found nothing (as there is no error logged in the ECU).

So could the EGR be the problem (given that it seems to be temp. related) and if so, can the EGR have issues whereas no error is reported?

And does anyone tried cleaning the EGR? How difficult is the job (if possible at all)?

2nd Apr 2010 8:07am

Higgers

Member Since: 08 Apr 2009
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 668

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Firenze Red

I'm the same, no smoke though. Does it regularly when driving gently.

2nd Apr 2010 8:57am

Higgers

Member Since: 08 Apr 2009
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 668

Spoke to Guava in Guildford today and they said they have seen the same on other Pumas.

They found that it was a small amount of water in the fuel filter. Mines going in for a service in the next 1000 miles so will update.

7th Apr 2010 7:04pm

o4dn

Member Since: 08 Jan 2010
Location: South West
Posts: 538

Higgers wrote:
Spoke to Guava in Guildford today and they said they have seen the same on other Pumas.

They found that it was a small amount of water in the fuel filter. Mines going in for a service in the next 1000 miles so will update.

Makes me think of this thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic2067.html but the VIN of mine is past the ones listed.

8th Apr 2010 8:20am

CapeLandy

Member Since: 21 Jul 2008
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 558

same here

Also have this symptom but only when cold (Africa Cold) and dissappears when Eng temp is about 40'C.
No faults on the scangauge and not a puff of smoke. very slight lag/misfire so not worried as yet.

8th Apr 2010 11:53am

tmcwhirter

Member Since: 02 Dec 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 23

2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

Did anyone get to the bottom of this? I have the same thing. Generally under gentle acceleration and splutters at c. 1900 rpm in 2nd just before I hit the powerband and shift ti 3rd. I have had a engine remap, performance filters put in and a new exhaust. Never happens when accelerating more aggressively - only when gentle.

9th Dec 2010 4:54pm

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