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MudboY



Member Since: 14 Nov 2015
Location: Pretoria
Posts: 2
South Africa 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alaska White
Traction Control not working effectively
Hi guys,

On some of the videos online, it seems as if the traction control should be kicking in almost immediately. I can hear the brake being applied but its not effective enough.

My 2011 defender's traction control is active and it does activate when wheel spin is detected. But it doesn't brake the spinning wheel effectively enough to transfer the power over to the wheel that is standing still. The traction control light comes on but it takes about 30 seconds of non stop spinning to realize that the vehicle is standing still due to no traction. i keep my revs constant around 2000 rpm and still nothing, so it is not a throttle application problem.

At the moment, the TC is useless. When traversing deep ditches and going into cross axles, my vehicle starts jumping and spinning due to the TC not activating fully as it should, causing it not to go through the obstacle. Please help, how can i fix this or where can i take it? The dealers are useless. They know nothing to very little about how the traction control is supposed to work. Big Cry
Post #472382 14th Nov 2015 5:17am
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lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 1330
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
If I remember correctly, at one point whilst on the Land Rover Experience driving day last year, I got a 110 cross axled at Coniston Cold. From a standing start, the TC wasn't able to lock the two free spinning wheels sufficiently to send enough drive to the other two wheels. This was on a concreted section of humps and dips. The only way to get moving was to rock backwards and forwards with the TC giving enough drive transfer for some movement and then at the appropriate time a whole boot load of power to scrabble through. It was the only time on the day where the instructor said to give it some serious revs.
For sure the TC is better than nothing, but from my experience at Coniston and on some pretty rutted farm tracks, it is nothing like proper locking diffs. My Haflinger had them as did my mate's Merc G Wagen.
Post #472389 14th Nov 2015 7:34am
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Mjibex



Member Since: 21 Mar 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 287
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Loire Blue
Are you using the diff lock? It means that the TC has to work less hard (left to right only - not back to front also).

Regards

Mark.
Post #472460 14th Nov 2015 2:14pm
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Naks



Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Stellenbosch, ZA
Posts: 2660
South Africa 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White
The Puma's TC does NOT work between the front & back axles, only across the same axle, i.e., between the right & left wheel & vice-versa.

Have a look at this video, which demonstrates this at around 17:30 into the clip:

 --
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged



Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9
Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO
Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ
Post #472480 14th Nov 2015 4:34pm
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lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 1330
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
Hi Naks,

I read a previous post that said after a certain date, the TC did work front to back as well.
So even if the centre diff isn't locked the TC is supposed to help.
A switch from Siemens to Bosch hardware or something along those lines.

I found the discussion on this here :

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic4032.h...p;start=15
Post #472488 14th Nov 2015 4:52pm
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MudboY



Member Since: 14 Nov 2015
Location: Pretoria
Posts: 2
South Africa 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alaska White
Mjibex wrote:
Are you using the diff lock? It means that the TC has to work less hard (left to right only - not back to front also).

Regards

Mark.


Hi,

Yes I do engage my centre difflock. The light comes on when engaged. As far my knowledge goes, the TC only works between left and right wheel because of the fact that one of these two wheels has to be on the ground. The c/difflock ensure power is sent to both front and rear axles. The T/C ensures (is supposed to) that power is given to the correct wheel ie the one with traction. Therefore it is not necessary for the TC to operate between front and rear wheels.
Post #473388 17th Nov 2015 8:38am
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Cheshire110



Member Since: 26 Jul 2013
Location: Cheshire/London
Posts: 2769
United Kingdom 
A bit of braking often gets a spinning wheel back into check and helps out the TC, forcing power to the grounded wheel. Cheers, David
Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8.
Post #473497 17th Nov 2015 2:00pm
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bvandyk



Member Since: 03 Sep 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 49
Naks wrote:
The Puma's TC does NOT work between the front & back axles, only across the same axle, i.e., between the right & left wheel & vice-versa.

Have a look at this video, which demonstrates this at around 17:30 into the clip:



True for the older pre2011 TC system. But the newer system as Mudboy has, its suppose to work front to rear also.

I helped him test it again yesterday, and there is definitely something wrong.
The Traction Control wants to kick in, the TC light on the dash just flashes. On my 2010 Puma the TC light stays on when TC engages. So not sure why on Mudboy's one the light flashes?

The flash either points to a problem, or it is one of the differences between the old and the new TC system.


Anyway, we tested his Puma with TC enabled, then we removed the ABS fuse. The car reacted the exact same way, with and without TC. Can clearly see in the video that TC doesnt kick in or help.

On the newer post 2011 TC system, you do need throttle input for it to work. On the older system you dont need throttle input.
He definitely got the new system, as his ABS light goes off immediately after startup, where on the older system it only goes off after 8km/h.
Post #474446 20th Nov 2015 6:55am
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bvandyk



Member Since: 03 Sep 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 49
And we had it on a hawkeye, not ABS or TC errors logged.

Will check it at our local indie with original Land Rover SDD software soon, and reset / relearn all the parameters
Post #474448 20th Nov 2015 6:57am
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Naks



Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Stellenbosch, ZA
Posts: 2660
South Africa 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White
bvandyk wrote:
I helped him test it again yesterday, and there is definitely something wrong.
The Traction Control wants to kick in, the TC light on the dash just flashes. On my 2010 Puma the TC light stays on when TC engages. So not sure why on Mudboy's one the light flashes? The flash either points to a problem, or it is one of the differences between the old and the new TC system.



Ah, yes, we had one guy in the club whose 110 also did the same thing. We even did videos of my car, his car and another 110 at Babylonstoren to prove to the dealer that his TC was not working as it should.

Not sure what happened in the end, but I think he gave up on LR fixing it, and this problem was there from new. Shocked --
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
2015 Range Rover Sport V8 Supercharged



Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9
Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO
Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ
Post #474487 20th Nov 2015 9:22am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic20997.html?highlight=download

Download the MY12 Workshop manual for yourself and work through the relevant sections - sometimes I think none of the main dealer techs have ever seen a copy!
Post #474510 20th Nov 2015 10:22am
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NinetyTD4



Member Since: 22 Apr 2011
Location: North
Posts: 397
Wales 2012 Defender 90 Other SW Keswick Green
@mudboy: I strongly suspect there is something wrong with your installation. Today we had two 90s playing together in mud and we compared my MY11 2.4 to a brand new MY15 2.2. Yes, TC works quite different, but is efficient on both. While the 2.4 needs no power for TC to jump in and only brakes left/right on the axle, the 2.2 brakes all 4 even fwd/aft but needs power to engage. TC old/new is not really comparable and I tend to prefer the older version, but they are both working as designed. I guess you have to be the pain in the ass for your dealer to figure out what went wrong. Never forget: cars have owner, Landrover have field service personnel.
Post #474579 20th Nov 2015 1:56pm
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