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Freddie



Member Since: 21 May 2014
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 46
South Africa 2004 Defender 110 Td5 USW Bonatti Grey
Poor Brakes on Defender TD5
Hi Guys,

I've been battling for some time now with terrible brakes on my Defender 110. I am hoping that someone here can help me before I lose the will to live!?!

My Vehicle is a 2004 Land Rover Defender TD5 110. It doesn't have ABS.

Currently, the brake peddle feels spongy on the top end but stiffens under pressure.
I don’t any real stopping power unless I slam my foot through the floor. Even then, the car only slows but the wheels wont lock up unless braking heavily on gravel.
If I pump the brakes wile idling, the peddle stiffens up nicely and brakes seem a lot more responsive - until I get 200ft down the road, by which point the brakes are a heap of Censored again..

I took the vehicle to a Land Rover ‘specialist’ and they replaced the Brake Servo and Master Cylinder. The Brake Servo was second hand but by all accounts mechanically sound. The master was new.

I still wasn’t happy, so ended up replacing all of the disks with grooved Terrafirma performance disks. I also replaced the brake calipers and pads at the same time. (The old disks had deep grooves and the caliper pistons were shot)

I have bled the system countless times and still no better.. There don’t appear to be any leaks or dodgy brake hosing either..

PLEASE help! Bow down
Post #468616 2nd Nov 2015 1:36pm
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jimbob7



Member Since: 06 Jul 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 2055
You may be (typically) over estimating the Defenders braking capacity.You really DON'T need grooved discs,unless you drive everywhere at 100mph,in which case your problem IS speeding.
ABS is actually a curse on (experienced) hard braking,but again, that should be a once in a lifetime experience,so slow down. Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5.
Post #468625 2nd Nov 2015 1:59pm
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couplands



Member Since: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Peak District & Cornwall
Posts: 1826
United Kingdom 2001 Defender 90 Td5 HT Oslo Blue
If you have a soft pedal at the begining of your braking and then it gets better when you pump the brakes, it could be worn wheel bearings.

The wheel wobble causes the discs to push the pads back into the callipers. It then takes a few pushes on the pedal to get the pads to make contact with the discs again.

Just a thought if you haven't checked the bearings.
Post #468626 2nd Nov 2015 2:08pm
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Freddie



Member Since: 21 May 2014
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 46
South Africa 2004 Defender 110 Td5 USW Bonatti Grey
Hi Jimbob7,

Thanks for your reply.

Over the years we've had seven Defenders and this one's brakes are noticeably worse than all of the others. There is defiantly a gremlin somewhere but before I spend any more time/ money on it, I had hoped to hear from someone who had been through similar issues.

As for the grooved disks. I found them for less than the LR disks - no brainer..
Post #468628 2nd Nov 2015 2:12pm
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Freddie



Member Since: 21 May 2014
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 46
South Africa 2004 Defender 110 Td5 USW Bonatti Grey
Couplands

Thanks for the suggestion!
Unfortunately its not the bearings. I've checked them and they're all in good shape :/
Post #468634 2nd Nov 2015 3:03pm
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jimbob7



Member Since: 06 Jul 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 2055
I,ve noticed Defender brakes are very,very, very poor,but unless you upgrade to braided hose's and 6 pot calipers there is nothing you can do.
Commercial vehicles brakes are very poor,act accordingly, and slow down!! Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5.
Post #468636 2nd Nov 2015 3:05pm
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Freddie



Member Since: 21 May 2014
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 46
South Africa 2004 Defender 110 Td5 USW Bonatti Grey
Hi Jimbob7,

Bad brakes are dangerous regardless of speed - hence my plea to solve this problem...

Braided hoses are something that I have considered.
Have you installed them on your vehicle? If so did you notice a difference?

What other companies are there that make brake calipers for the Defender?
The only ones that I have seen are the ones fitted to the twisted vehicles, which I bet are prohibitively expensive!
Post #468639 2nd Nov 2015 3:12pm
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Freddie



Member Since: 21 May 2014
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 46
South Africa 2004 Defender 110 Td5 USW Bonatti Grey
UPDATE:

If I put my foot on the brake pedal when the vehicle is turned off, without pumping, the pedal dips to what feels like 1/3rd of its total travel. If I then start the car with my foot still on the pedal, I do not feel any more or less resistance through my leg. (i.e. the pedal doesn't stiffen and push my foot back, nor does it soften and give under the pressure.)

If I then pump the pedal whilst the engine is running, it stiffens to become rock hard. However as soon as the vehicle moves, even slightly, the pedal returns to a sponge.

Whilst 'spongy' if I pump the pedal 2/3 times when the vehicle is off, before it once again becomes rock hard. Turn the car on and the pedal remains rock hard. This is until the vehicle moves and the pedal becomes spongy once more.

I am wondering whether its not the brake booster or vacuum pump that's Censored ?
However, there aren't any leaks or noises to suggest that air might be escaping from the vacuum pump whilst pressing on the brake peddle.

Any ideas/ insight would be greatly appreciated!
Post #469285 4th Nov 2015 10:02am
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couplands



Member Since: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Peak District & Cornwall
Posts: 1826
United Kingdom 2001 Defender 90 Td5 HT Oslo Blue
I posted about poor brakes on my TD5 (but its really a brake fade issue), but one of the replies suggested a possible issue with a crack in the brake servo. Have a look at the post http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic41147.html

cheers

simon
Post #469322 4th Nov 2015 11:48am
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Freddie



Member Since: 21 May 2014
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 46
South Africa 2004 Defender 110 Td5 USW Bonatti Grey
Hi Simon,

Thanks for the link/ suggestion.
Did you find a solution?

I've just had a look and I cant see any cracks. if it were cracked, wouldn't it also leak?

I also noticed from your link the recommendations re-braided hoses. My vehicle is a similar age to yours and although the lines look ok they could be perishing. Did you end up fitting braided hoses to your truck? Any better?
Post #469338 4th Nov 2015 12:41pm
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Lambley



Member Since: 20 Apr 2013
Location: Mid Devon
Posts: 1435
United Kingdom 2006 Defender 90 Td5 HT Java Black
Check very carefully for leaks, mine had this problem and there was a very small crack on the side of the master cylinder, here's what it can look like....

[URL=]
Click image to enlarge[/URL]

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated Mr. Green
Post #469347 4th Nov 2015 1:20pm
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Freddie



Member Since: 21 May 2014
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 46
South Africa 2004 Defender 110 Td5 USW Bonatti Grey
Thank you Lambley! I've just had another look and cant see any cracks but that's not to say that there isn't one hiding out of sight.

I've just pulled the Vacuum pipe off the servo (vehicle turned off) and it made a very satisfying noise, like pulling a cork from a bottle. I then turned the engine on and put my finger over the pipe and got what I think was a fair bit of suction (pipe stuck to my finger without trouble). This makes me think that the vacuum pump is still working and that the servo is 'air tight'.

I did however look under the car and saw that there was a slight 'sweat' at the bottom of what I am assuming is the brake pressure valve? Could this be the culprit!?


Click image to enlarge
Post #469358 4th Nov 2015 1:44pm
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Lambley



Member Since: 20 Apr 2013
Location: Mid Devon
Posts: 1435
United Kingdom 2006 Defender 90 Td5 HT Java Black
Could be, doesn't look like much of a leak from the picture but it won't need to be much as it might be letting air in as well as fluid out. It's the pressure reducing valve, part number NTC 8836.
Post #469362 4th Nov 2015 2:06pm
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Freddie



Member Since: 21 May 2014
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 46
South Africa 2004 Defender 110 Td5 USW Bonatti Grey
Thanks Lambley!

I agree that it doesn't look like a severe leak but perhaps its slowly giving up the ghost.. One thing I've learned with owning Land Rovers is that 'preventative maintenance' seems like the best policy. I have cleaned it up and will monitor the leak. If it continues, I'll replace it.

Many thanks for your help!
Post #469366 4th Nov 2015 2:22pm
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couplands



Member Since: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Peak District & Cornwall
Posts: 1826
United Kingdom 2001 Defender 90 Td5 HT Oslo Blue
Freddie wrote:
Hi Simon,

Thanks for the link/ suggestion.
Did you find a solution?

I've just had a look and I cant see any cracks. if it were cracked, wouldn't it also leak?

I also noticed from your link the recommendations re-braided hoses. My vehicle is a similar age to yours and although the lines look ok they could be perishing. Did you end up fitting braided hoses to your truck? Any better?


I haven't made any changes yet. My brakes ok 99% of the time, it's only when the brakes get a lot of use/heat do they lose their stopping power. The rest of the time they work impressively well, certainly good enough for the ABS to kick in even on a dry road.

I will impliment the changes recommend though and hopefully improve my problem.

Cheers

Simon
Post #469398 4th Nov 2015 4:40pm
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