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ozy013

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 105

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Rimini Red

Head scratching, Puma 2.4 Limp mode, what to look for?

Mmmm where do i start?

So far over the past two days, I've had the 2.4 go into Limp mode 3 times. The revs won't go above 1500, can only proceed at 40kh, but no MIL lights.

There doesn't seem to be a pattern......yet! The first two occasions were yesterday, going up from 2nd to 3rd, changing at 2200rpm, engine temp normal (85), level ground and no real load on engine.
Third time I had the BAS2RRC hooked up as I traveled to work this morning. Logging the live data. Again flat ground, no engine load, engine just coming up to temp (79), but this time changing up from 5th to 6th at 2500rpm. All data was as should be. Throttle sensors 1 and 2 all good, fuel rail pressure as should be. EGR turned off with city map and physically blanked.

Checked for faults, and none logged.

The fuel filter is only a 1000k's old, as I've just completed the 80,000k service. Drained and all good. No sediment.

I've just cleaned the MAF and MAP sensors and took for test drive, at this stage all good, no limp mode.

Next step, tomorrow, is to remove the turbo and intercooler hoses, for closer inspection. They seem ok fitted up, no obvious splits, cracks or rub marks. Clamps seem ok. They are the original LR hoses, haven't quite got the money together yet for a set of silicons. I was thinking maybe the BAS Re map, which has been on now for about a month, has exposed a weakness in the LR hoses. Possibly causing delamination. I've had turbo hoses let go before on a couple of work trucks, generally there's a fair bit of noise involved and all the check lights come on.

The Defender just gave up quietly, no noise, no lights. The second time was a bit disconcerting, as I was pulling out of a side street onto the main road, and there was nothing, no power. Luckily it was 5am with no traffic. Before it happens, the engine is performing fine, no flat spots or hesitation, plenty of torque. There is absolutely no warning signs before it drops into limp mode.

It was suggested that it could possibly be the fuel pump, but wouldn't that light up the MIL and throw a code or two?

Next step will be to fork out for some silicon turbo/intercooler hoses, but to be honest I'm at a bit of a loss trying to figure this one out, especially as there's no MIL or codes being logged.

So any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
__________________
_________________________________
Ian.

"Busby" 2010 Defender Puma 110,
"ozy013" 1996 Defender 130 crew cab,(gone).
"Pudd'in" 1973 88" Series III hard top, (gone, stolen)

15th Aug 2015 12:01pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17372

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Volume Control Valve on fuel pump.

It can cause all manner of wierdness, and is one of the few components that generally doesn't cause a DTC.

15th Aug 2015 1:33pm

ozy013

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 105

Thanks blackwolf, I've just been reading up on the VCV. Seems pretty easy to replace, and I can do the pump learn with Pete's BAS2RRC tool.

Definitely a possibility, it's just that my Puma's idle is fine on start up, no hunting whatsoever. Plus it never felt like stalling.

With the pump learn, if i understand correctly from an earlier post of Pete's on another thread, there are only so many times you can do a pump learn before your ECU's memory is full. 14 I think he said. I've already performed one pump learn on the standard tune, before i flashed the tuned file. That's what Pete recommended.
Just a bit hesitant to use up my ECU's memory.

15th Aug 2015 2:09pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

There is an issue with the inlet ports on the filter housing becoming blocked with detritus as they are very small and can easily restrict the fuel feed. Another possible cause is fuel tank contamination so I personally would add a bottle of Wynn's dry fuel to the tank and at the next tank I would add a bottle of Archoil AR6400-D Pro PEA Concentrate Diesel Cleaner (430ml). These will remove any Bio contaminants in the fuel system. When you took the live data did you log the data? If so how quickly did the rail pressure drop when you lost power?

http://www.wynnoil.co.uk/products-wynns-fu...ryfeul.htm

http://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/archoil-ar6...e-639.html

15th Aug 2015 3:10pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17372

When I had VCV trouble, the engine didn't hunt and didn't stall, it just completely lost power usually at the worst possible moment. The symptoms made me suspect fuel starvation and that in turn lead to the discovery of the diesel bug and resulted in me dropping the tank and cleaning it, getting the fuel polished, all of whicn made no difference. Finally I spent a whole 15 minutes changing the VCV and immediately the engine ran as sweetly and smoothly as ever. Instant fix!

Virtually all engine systems will give some kind of DTC if malfunctioning, but the LP fuel system and some of the HP system isn't effectively monitored. A contact I have in LR tech says that in the absence of a DTC the VCV is the first component they change.

I have heard the tale of the fuel pump learn and injector learn cycles using memory in the ecu, but in reality there's no avoiding it. I think I've done mine about 5 times now.

15th Aug 2015 8:52pm

ozy013

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 105

Cheers Lorryman, I did notice some jelly/silicone like contamination a few months ago on a routine drain of the filter. I ran a couple of bottles of this stuff through the tank.
http://www.wynns.net/product/i/complete-fu...ner-diesel

I have a 120ltr LongRanger tank. I will have another look and see if i can find similar products here in Oz, thanks for the links.

When I logged the data there was no noticeable rapid drop in the fuel rail pressure. The log shows that it followed the accelerator pedal sensors and engine revs pretty much all the way.
I think I'll keep the BAS tool hooked up for a few days, and see what happens, at least I'll be able to log the data if it does it again.

Will also check the inlet ports, if I get a chance today, got to take the kids to a couple of birthday party's first. Their calendar is busier than mine at the moment.

Also thanks again blackwolf, nice to know that the VCV trouble can cause total power loss with no real symptoms beforehand. And I guess if the learn has to be done then there's no real option but to use some of the ECU's EEPROM. Now to start looking for a VCV, looks like i can get a denso off fleabay. Might try the local Ford dealer. Is it best to go genuine LR or will the Denso be ok?

15th Aug 2015 10:51pm

ozy013

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 105

So quick update, went for 3 drives today, all good, no problems at this stage.

However I have ordered a VCV/SCV from fleabay. Even if this isn't the issue this time around, it's only a matter of time, especially after reading up on it here and the Transit forums. It's good to have a spare, considering how it seems to be such a common problem.

I did remove the turbo/intercooler hoses for a closer inspection, and they are fine. But I will be chucking on some silicons in the near future.
And I also dropped some of this in the tank, http://www.liqui-moly.com.au/products/diesel-algae-stop-2731/

However I decided not to check the inlet ports at the moment.

Thanks again for your time, and great advice.

__________________
_________________________________
Ian.

"Busby" 2010 Defender Puma 110,
"ozy013" 1996 Defender 130 crew cab,(gone).
"Pudd'in" 1973 88" Series III hard top, (gone, stolen)

16th Aug 2015 11:52am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17372

Ford VCV is just as good as LR, I've been running a Ford one for 80k miles or so.

It is a reassuring part to have in stock as a spare, I also keep the fuel rail pressure relief valve in stock just in case.

16th Aug 2015 9:02pm

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