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| salesman Member Since: 01 Sep 2014 Location: The Yorkshire Dales God's Country Posts: 72   
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We are heading down to explore the Alps maritime in late July, crossing France to pick up the "route Napoleon" down to grasse and Cannes,
Then back via the Route des grand Alps, menton to annency. Any tips on places to visit, wild camping spots, and routes through the Alps off Tarmac would be gratefully received Cheers Barry. |
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22nd Jun 2015 7:06am |
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10382
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I did the Annecy trip a couple of years ago, beautiful place
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9th Jul 2015 7:08am |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2665 
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I've spent quite a bit of time in the Alps. I'm an occasional mountaineer, also ridden motorbikes on the Alpine passes quite a bit (including the Grossglockner), and driven cars on the same route. Never in a Defender tho.
The route you are talking about can be pretty slow, so take your time. You do travel through stunning scenery! Castellane is a favourite for me. It has a market once a week, and interesting walk up the hill overlooking the village. The campsite was fine, but not stayed for a few years.  If you get a chance to visit some of the famous Alpine towns (Chamonix, Zermatt etc) they can be stunning. I do like a day in Chamonix. the Chamonix Micro Brewery does awesome beer and a huge bowl of chicken-wings - always a favourite haunt after a climbing trip to top-up on calories and celebrate our summit cache with some beer
http://www.mbchx.com/eng%20mbc%20home.htm Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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9th Jul 2015 11:04am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5818  
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Following on from Martin K,
If I could be so bold, I would suggest you avoid the Route Napoleon in July. (I say, despite having to drive down it twice later this July!!). However, I have done it in both a car and on the Motorbike to friends who live near Dignes. Sorry to say it, but it is absolutely chocker at this time of year and what should take perhaps 4hrs, might take 6-8h. Mostly Dutch tourists, in groups of caravans or campervans, drifting along at 50kmh interspersed with convoys of articulates and groups of bikes. It is absolutely (as Martin points out) a beautiful route, but it will take you ages to get anywhere, can be baking hot and there's not actually too much to see between Grenoble and the coast bar scenary, the odd gorge and pretty town. In effect like the site like Martin put up. Sorry to mow Martin's grass, but for the hassle.....not sure the sites are worth it at this time of year. Spring, Autumn, 100%, but mid-summer? Each to their own, but I would suggest getting to your destination, less hot and flustered, and then having an extra day or so to enjoy day-trips to key sites locally..... Annecy is stunning (our recent weather has been up to 40c) and is worth a detour (for the medieval town) or Lac de Bourget (next lake along) for a beautiful, calm lake. Chamonix (and nearby Saint Gervais, Megeve, Samoens etc) I obviously love, I wouldn't live here otherwise and would recommend any/all of them. Each offer their own unique ambiance and Martin is bang on regards the MBC's wings and beer. But then there's the Moo Burger. Or perhaps the Jekyll Hog Roast and Ribs, or the Serac's (Saint Gervais) 120 day hung Angus, the Tanniere's Argentinian Filet (Argentinian owned and accessible only on foot or by 4x4 - woo hoo) and finally my mate's 'Alpage' a converted mountain hut, accessible on a lovely off-road trail, which we shall be stopping by for an over-nighter of steak and beers (photo attached) should you be passing between Haute Luce and Les Contamines.....the list goes on. Click image to enlarge As for the RDGA, it is stunning, but again can be busy. Of the two, generally you will make a better go of things on the RDGA. Don't forget that if you do the RDGA you can do some fab off-road sections just across the boarder in Italy. Lac de Mont Cenis/Frejus region is just a hop from Val d'Isere etc....Good news is after two weeks of 30-40c temps you should be able to use all the Cols and avoid any tunnels (Mont Blanc and Frejus, both effing expensive). Whatever, have fun, it is amazing and keep an eye open for a white 110SW, shoed with black Blindos and with a Military Union Flag sticker on the rear 3/4. I shall be heading down to Alpe d'Huez on the 25th (so passing near Grenoble/N85) and again later in the week to Dignes, likely on the 29th....We are then heading back via Liguria and overnighting on the aforementioned Mont Cenis on/about 2nd.... And if you or dioliahary make it to Chamonix and want any top-tips on things to do/see etc (Cham or the whole region) or merely grab a beer, do not hesitate to PM me and I can give you my mobile number etc. Bar my 3-4 days in Dignes/Italy, I shall be around. Sorry for waxing lyrical, love it here..... Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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9th Jul 2015 1:10pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2665
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^^^ wow - lots of great stuff there
 If I get to Cham, I'll drop PM to you myself and share a wing or 2 Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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9th Jul 2015 4:57pm |
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| salesman Member Since: 01 Sep 2014 Location: The Yorkshire Dales God's Country Posts: 72
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Thanks guys,
all useful info, being a very well travelled biker, I have done both routes before, but on a bike, and earlier in the year, hotelling as we went leading a group of 15 Goldwings. but I was so taken with the area and the many routes to follow in the mountains I just had to take the 110 and camp. we are hoping to wild camp a little, but sites will be needed. and as your travelling in the area, watch out for a green 110 TD5 5 door with ezi-awn on the roof and military Union Jacks front and rear, it would be great to meet up to tear a chop or two over a Barbie...not forgetting a cold one or two... thanks Barry |
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9th Jul 2015 6:57pm |
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| dioliahary Member Since: 18 Jan 2015 Location: Manchester Posts: 668 
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Thanks sound great, any tips on things to do, places to see in or near Annecy, we were thinking of hiring a bike, couple of walks, maybe hiring a car and getting to Cham.
We are trying to establish the weather at Annecy this time of year for the sake of packing etc, we are a little nervous as we want it to go well and be one of many holidays like this for the future, not ruling out driving across in the defender for next time. If we get to Cham I will look out for the defender:-) |
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13th Jul 2015 8:20am |
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| salesman Member Since: 01 Sep 2014 Location: The Yorkshire Dales God's Country Posts: 72
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We have spent a lot of time around Annecy,
heres one place worth a visit, http://chateau-de-menthon.com/en/index.php and if you take a picnic with you, sit on the hill and watch the paragliders playing barry |
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13th Jul 2015 9:12am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5818
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Hola,
Martin K, Salesman you are welcome to get in touch. Dioliahary, ins answer to your questions: Re the Alps in summer, general rule of thumb is be prepared. The average rainfall here during July/August/September is approx 10 days per month. However, these will include days which have been hot and dry, bar an obligatory early evening (normally 1700ish) thunderstorm, which is no bad thing as it clears the air. Can be half an hour or a couple of hours and then you wake to glorious clear skies. Standard heat build-up meteorology. That is the norm, with temps around 25-30c, but can feel a lot hotter if you are in direct sunlight, exposed at altitude or in a narrow valley with little wind (Cham is great for the last one). However, you also need to be prepared for rain, for a few days at a time and heavy. Again. Unfortunately that is the Alps for you. Last year we had 26 days of rain in a row during July, worst ever. But this year is baking and we are currently two weeks into a period of absolutely no rain and temps of 40c. When hot, eve endings can be lovely, but if closer to 26c and if you are in a town 1000m or so or higher, those who feel the cold should have a light jumper or cardie to hand, as when the sun disappears thee can be a chill. So basically, be prepared. Generally you will have more sun, more heat and more clear skies than the UK at this time of year, but like the UK (and as every Brit should) be prepared for rain. NB, if you're going up to altitude (for example taking a lift to 2000m+ in Cham for a walk) just because it is crystal clear skies when you leave, does not mean it cannot turn within an hour, so absolutely take wet gear, but also a hat, extra top, water, snack bars and gloves. People regularly get caught out.... Re Annecy, gorgeous town, but will be crowded. For cycling, there is a cycle route from Annecy down the west lakeside (right hand side if you're looking at the lake with Annecy to your back) that takes you as far as Albertville. It runs along the lake first and then follows a disused railway through woods, pastures etc. dedicated cycle path, so nice and safe. As for other sites, get in the car (or use the bus, but not bike as it is more dangerous) and visit the prettier East side of the lake, notably the medieval towns of Talloires and Menthon Saint Bernard. You can even have the truffle starter in the Michelin restaurant in Talloires, which was 98€ last time I looked....Also on that side you have the ridge beyond Talloires from which you can Paraglide over the lake. Finally, that East flank is also the access for the Aravis plateau which includes towns such as La Clusaz, Thonon, Grand Bornand, all pretty in their own right and driving you through some of the classic Tour de France routes and climbs. Don't be too quick to ignore Geneva as day trip. 25 mins from Annecy, but with gorgeous lake, lovely bars and restaurants, handful of museums and some very cool beaches. Some are uber chic and expensive, others (such as Bains des Paquis) more bohemian. As regards hiring a car and coming to Cham, certainly do. I would suggest driving out via the Gorges d'Arly (heading to the southern tip of Annecy lake and on to the town of Ugine) as it is far prettier. Amazing gorge. You can then stop for coffee in Megeve or Saint Gervais (where I live) both en route and requiring no detour. Cham is then 35-40mins on from Megeve, 15-20 from St Ger. 90-120 mins all in, but gorgeous. You can then blast back from Cham to Annecy along the motorway, in approx 60mins. Lots to do in Cham, an obvious one being going up in a cable car. If you do, I suggest ignoring the Aiguille du Midi at this time of year (you will queue for hours) and arguably whilst it is the highest viewing platform in Europe, you miss the main view which is the Aiguille do Midi itself. As such, I would suggest going up the Brevent on the opposite side, which as the best views. Also, don't do the Montenvers train, highly overrated. I would suggest the Tramway du Mont Blanc from St Gervais, which goes to the Nid'Aigle, the traditional start for summits of Mont Blanc. Far, far prettier route. From there you can walk a number of beautiful Alpine routes. Re lunch, Cham can be a mixed bag. Very mixed. Avoid the stuff in the dead centre/pedestrian area, utter tourist s**te. If you're after a cafe and budget lunch, go for Elevation, just by the station. Locals hang out, bags of atmosphere. If you want a heartier meal, think the Moo Bar or Pointe Isabelle. Both have terraces and are on he same road (heading towards town) as Elevation. Bit more cash and want to spoil yourself, think of the Cabane in Les Praz, located by the golf club. Best terrace, best views, bar none. Also, if you choose the menu du jour, can still be 20-25€ per head. It's worth baring in mind that the Michelin restaurants (1* Morgane and Auberge du Bois Prin, 2* Albert Premier) all based in hotels, have very sensibly priced menus for luncheon. Check their websites or boards beforehand and book in advance. Finally, do remember that the food at altitude is effing expensive and usually not very good. either take sarnies (best value are from Buck's near the Aiguille du Midi lift) or DIY. If you must eat at altitude then I strongly suggest taking the Tramway from St Ger as previously described, stopping at 'Bellevue' and either walking to Le Taniere or Les Vielles Luges, both of which are alpine farmhouses converted into amazing restaurants with staggering views. Finally, don't forget that you are only 25mins further (from Cham) to Italy, if you want some great espresso and pizza in Courmayeur. Albeit what you will save on food prices (30/50% cheaper) you will lose on e return trip through the tunnel, approx 45€. On the subject of longer distances, I would avoid getting suckered in by the big name high altitude resorts in the Savoie (Val d'Isere, Meribel, Coucheval, Tignes etc) as they are ghost towns (whatever they like to pretend) unless you are genuinely in the market for some high altitude walking, mountain biking or ragging a motorbike over some of the classic cols. Hope that all helps? Do get in touch if I can help any further or if you're up for a beer. PS, remember the Union Flag on my Defender, and from the front the custom 'Kahn' style grill, as there are lots of white ones out here. Here's a photo or two... Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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13th Jul 2015 9:17am |
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| dioliahary Member Since: 18 Jan 2015 Location: Manchester Posts: 668
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Wow, thank you very much, will be taking some notes. Thanks for the advice and I will certainly look out for your defender. We visited Chamonix last year for a weekend and felt very excited, we got the cable car up to the Aiguille Du Midi that weekend a beautiful day. thanks for the tips really appreciate them.
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13th Jul 2015 5:53pm |
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| satcomjets Member Since: 13 Aug 2015 Location: Grasse Posts: 22 
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Hi I live near Grasse in a pretty village called Cabris. I would highly recommend a stop off in the Gorges Du Verdon, truly beautiful, the worlds second largest grand canyon. Exquisite sights and well worth the visit - there is a load of camping nearby. Then if you fancy a detour check out Beaux De Provence and Cassis, some of my favourite places
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13th Aug 2015 5:38am |
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| TACK Member Since: 26 Apr 2009 Location: Essex Posts: 1045 
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I can recommend Castellane, we stayed there last month for a week in a camping chalet. Even manage a little walk up to that church on top of the hill
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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13th Aug 2015 7:12am |
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| satcomjets Member Since: 13 Aug 2015 Location: Grasse Posts: 22
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Castellane nice, some nice lakes to the north east of Castellane and right on the doorstep of the Gorges Du Verdon! 110 Puma MY 12
JE Engineering Fettled |
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13th Aug 2015 7:14am |
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| Birdy Member Since: 07 Oct 2011 Location: Côte d'Azur Posts: 865 
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If you’re gonna visit the Gorges de Verdon from Castellane, a nice little trip is to take the D952 towards La Palud sur Verdon, but turn left shortly before; this will take you on a clockwise direction round the Route des Crêtes, spectacular. DON’T try to do the route anti-clockwise, it’s narrow in stretches, one-way only, and you won’t get too far from the D952 before having to turn back.
I like to read these road plannings, do most of ‘em in my Mog (well, let’s face it, many of the “wild” pics of Land Rovers against a fantastic background were in reality only about 100 metres from a tarmac road). Peter |
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13th Aug 2015 9:00am |
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