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Stiletto

Member Since: 24 Jun 2015
Location: Sussex-by-the-Sea
Posts: 7

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

Lack of power since clutch change

Hi everyone,
well this is my first proper post since joining your forum and hope someone will be able to point me in the right direction regarding a problem that i have with my 110.
First off, it is a 2009 XS Utility model with the Puma engine. After owning it for about 6 months i was pulling out from a junction when something snapped and could not get drive out of it (although the gears seemed to be engageing)
Off to my local garage it went. They told me (which i have no reason to disbelieve) that the clutch plate shattered and in the process took out some parts in the gearbox. They sent the gearbox to a local specialist (Bexhill Gearboxes) who had a look at it and said one of the shafts had snapped and they replaced that with an upgraded shaft (commenting that the OMP ones were not unlike carrots)
So after the return of the "upgraded gearbox", new clutch i got the wagon back from the garage and shortly after noticed a reduction in power.
I can hardly get into 6th gear when motorway driving and going up average hills can be a bit embarrassing being overtaken by artic's and woe betide Fonteras! Selecting gears is not an issue, its just once in top gear the rev's just die off and have to drop down to lower gears.

Now for a couple of notes. Before the clutch went i did some minor mods although nothing regarding the engine. I successfully replaced the background of the instrument cluster with a white one from "Tune My Defender" and wound the needles in the correct manor that they recommended, and had no trouble with any of the instruments.
When i got the wagon back i noticed that the speedo was now not working. After mentioning this to my mechanic he made some enquiries and suggested that if the speedo was not working then a rev limiter would come into effect by the engine management system and would explain top gear problem.
Not completely convinced, and loathed to send my cluster off to a specialist i had a word with a local Defender dealer. They said the first thing they would check would be the gearbox transducer which i decided to renew myself, being an easy job sitting onto the gearbox under the centre cubby box.
Still no joy!

Having the speedo not working is not really an issue with me, but if by fixing this it will sort my power (lack of) problems then obviously would get it done. Incidentally, out of gear and in the lower gears the rev counter works fine and goes to red line.

Hope someone can shed some light on this most annoying problem

Stiletto

24th Jun 2015 6:40pm

Fifth Horseman

Member Since: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Lanarkshire
Posts: 322

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

The speedo not working will cause a reduction in engine power. As you have replaced the sender the next step is to check fuse F12 in the fuse box under the steering column (this fuse supplies power to the speedo sensor). If the new fuse blows, then follow the wiring loom from the sensor to make sure it is not trapped anywhere.

24th Jun 2015 7:20pm

Stiletto

Member Since: 24 Jun 2015
Location: Sussex-by-the-Sea
Posts: 7

Hi 5th Horseman,
well thank you for a very quick response, after checking F12 which was not blown i decided today to delve a little deeper and checked the wires from the transducer of which there was 3.
These 3 wires run in some mini conduit and following it along until it joins the big fat conduit i noticed that there was some electrical tape wrapped around it about half way along. This revealed that the black/red wire had snapped or cut so i joined them back up and was barely confident that this was the problem.
Is life ever easy? Well, no.
After speaking to my mechanic he said they probably run to the ABS at which point i have come to a brick wall. Reason being that i do not have any electrical schematics to perform any continuity checks. Very little or none on the net so not sure as to the next step.
Any further ideas gratefully appreciated

25th Jun 2015 5:51pm

Fifth Horseman

Member Since: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Lanarkshire
Posts: 322

The transducer on the gearbox has nothing to do with the ABS, that has its own sensors, one on each wheel.

Three wires on the transducer are:

1 - white/green - 12v from F11 - ignition switched supply
2 - black - earth
3 - black/red - speed pulse output direct to instrument panel connector (pin 13)

There should be a pulsed output on the red/black wire with the ignition on and the rear propshaft rotating - the pulse frequency is proportional to speed.

25th Jun 2015 7:45pm

MR_JAMES

Member Since: 10 Oct 2013
Location: ESSEX
Posts: 248

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

i unplugged my sender once as an experiment.. and it suffered the same problems as you.. struggled to get to 50mph. 1953 80"
1987 mini city e
2011 90"

25th Jun 2015 9:21pm

nickhodgson

Member Since: 08 Dec 2009
Location: Zambia
Posts: 174

Hi

It sounds as if you mechanic may not know the exact details of how the system works or where the wires go. Are you then sure he did the rest of the work correctly?? Why is there insulation tape on the wires to the transducer? - it does not have the issue you described from the factory but may develop a loom problem if the mechanic does not disconnect the cables correctly and stretched something when removing the gearbox. You will then be looking for a broken cable in a loom!!! Are all your other cables on the gearbox secured with their correct clips? If not you should expect some more electrical problems when the cables wear through.

It is also odd for the clutch plate to shatter and damage the gearbox? Are there any details of what exactly was replaced? Part numbers or costs could give some indications.

Also my experience also says that if you tampered with the speedo and its not not working then look at the speedo. There is a special connector with a locking clip that holds the speedo cluster loom into the cluster. Is it secured correctly and are any of the pins damaged?

Hope this helps
Cheers Nick 1995 300tdi Defender 90 P/UP
2011 Puma Defender 130 D/C
2000 300tdi Defender 110 P/UP
2015 Discovery 4 SDV6 HSE

26th Jun 2015 10:12am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17383

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

I wouldn't mind betting that the original problem was the classic output adaptor shaft failure, and nothing to do with the clutch, and that the wiring harness for the speed transducer was damaged during the repair.

26th Jun 2015 10:29am

Stiletto

Member Since: 24 Jun 2015
Location: Sussex-by-the-Sea
Posts: 7

Thank you everyone for all your inputs to this problem.

I have managed to do some further investigations and it is looking like the speedo is the culprit (as well as ill qualified mechanics throwing spanners at it!)

So i have got 12v on the white/green at the transducer and have continuity on the red/black back to pin 13 on the cluster.

The only thing i've not been able to check yet is the pulsed voltage on the red/black whilst the vehicle is in motion.

Does anyone know of any tools (such as an electricians neon wand) that would make this part of the test easier. The cluster electrical block is in an awkward position to do the test whilst driving and the only other way i can think of is to spike the red/black with a pin and measure voltage from there. (Or am i making a mountain out of a mole hill?)

Anyway, thank you so much for your help. This forum seems to be the best out there for getting answers

2nd Jul 2015 8:16am

K9F

Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

The white green is the main ignition supply for the instrument cluster if this was non functional I would expect a lot more than just speedo issues. Your continuity test on the red/black was it carried out end to end? The best was of testing it would be to isolate each end of the red/black cable and use an insulation tester on a low voltage setting and check end to end and end to earth to make sure you've continuity and no short to earth. You can use a multimeter for the same test but it won't be as effective looking for short circuits to earth if you have insulation break down. In the event of no issues I would suspect the transducer itself (seems you replaced that already) or the cluster. Before that I would 'slave in' a temporary cable and replace the red/black cable as a process of elimination at your stage especially as it is a pulsed input and the cable has been compromised once already. You could perhaps if you have access to one fit a diagnostic tester (like a Scangauge) as well and see if you've an output off the OBD (not sure myself if that will work if speedo is goosed anyway)? 'Spiking' anything it not a good idea in my book.

Diagrams....follow link. Good luck!

K9F wrote:
You need to dig about in his site. Not sure if this link will work but if it does it will take you directly to the diagrams.

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?cid=4B...&wdo=1

If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

2nd Jul 2015 9:12am

nicholas2012

Member Since: 28 Jun 2012
Location: lanarkshire
Posts: 193

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17174.html?highlight=speedo

2nd Jul 2015 9:39am

Fifth Horseman

Member Since: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Lanarkshire
Posts: 322

Did you also check that you had continuity from pin 2 (black-earth) to the battery negative terminal?
You should be able to see the speedo pulses on the red/black wire using a multi-meter, as suggested lift a well and turn it by hand.
If you do see the pulses then its most likely that the instrument panel is at fault. As this happened immediately following gearbox work I still suspect wiring issues.

Check also the wiring to the Hi/Lo transfer box switch and also does the diff-lock warning lamp work?

If using the ODB socket to check the speed input don't get misled by using the ABS speed signal, this is derived from the wheel sensors.

2nd Jul 2015 12:09pm

munch90

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

take it you have checked the drive is turning out of gearbox

as said , if you turn the electronic sender fast (sort of flick it round ) by hand you or some else should see the speedo jump on the dash

2nd Jul 2015 12:32pm

Stiletto

Member Since: 24 Jun 2015
Location: Sussex-by-the-Sea
Posts: 7

At last,
i have finally sorted the problem with all your help. So it came down to the cut red/black lead (monkey mechanics fault) and then down to the new transducer (which i was advised to change).

I can only guess i fitted it wrong and mis-aligned it in the gearbox (Numpty!)

Thanks once again to you all, i can now go uphill.

4th Jul 2015 12:42pm

Fifth Horseman

Member Since: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Lanarkshire
Posts: 322

Glad its sorted

4th Jul 2015 2:36pm

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