 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma - Front Middle Seat legal? |
 
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018   
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I'm thinking that the answer from your insurance company would give you the comfort to fit. It would have to be a chance in a million if you were stopped by the police and challenged on it.
Would you also have to change the V5? If you put in an application to change then you could see whether they would or would not do it? Out of interest who was the insurance company? |
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21st May 2015 9:13am |
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| MrOl Member Since: 21 May 2015 Location: East Anglia Posts: 41 |
It was Lancaster Insurance (a broker I think). The only reason for the concern is that, in a worst case and you had a bad accident, apparently the insurance company might still use it as an excuse to not pay out if you hadn't had the right approvals...hence trying to find out what, if any (!), actual approvals are needed.....
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21st May 2015 9:26am |
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| Mjibex Member Since: 21 Mar 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 283 
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In my mind it is very simple.
It is not legal with a lap strap. From 2007 EU legislation changed to mandate 3 point seat belts on all seats (hence one of the reasons for the Puma & its change of seat layout); and why no new car since then has had a centre rear lap strap. With a properly engineered/tested 3 or 4 point belt/harness that is declared to your insurance company, it would think is fine. Mark. |
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21st May 2015 9:31am |
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| Tribord Member Since: 20 Apr 2013 Location: France Posts: 217  
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Changing into 2nd and 4th gear could be interesting for both driver and passenger
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21st May 2015 10:13am |
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| MrOl Member Since: 21 May 2015 Location: East Anglia Posts: 41 |
This was the belt I was thinking of:- http://www.exmoortrimshop.com/store/defend...etail.html When you say 'tested' above - does that apply to the belt in isolation or the combination of belt and vehicle together? |
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21st May 2015 10:39am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17207 
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Several issues.
You must use a 3-point belt. I believe the belt mounting points must be type approved, which is clearly an issue. The belt you've linked to looks unsuitable to me for two reasons. 1. If the belt isn't attached to the seat back in the shoulder area, it will not adequately restrain the upper body. 2. If it is attached, the seat back must be strong enough to restrain the body. Not insuperable but not easy. As noted above, insurance may be an issue. Finally have you ever tried riding in the midfle seat? Unless you're a legless midget it really isn't much fun! |
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21st May 2015 5:31pm |
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| MrOl Member Since: 21 May 2015 Location: East Anglia Posts: 41 |
Insurance doesn't seem to be an issue oddly. However the type approval on the fixing points I think must be - as it won't have been done by LR. Anyone know what you would have to do to have it approved - is it just inspection by the MOT man or more than that?
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21st May 2015 8:45pm |
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| shaggydog Member Since: 12 Aug 2012 Location: Kent Posts: 3347 
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Its not that bad actually. I usually get the girlfriend to use the centre seat when required. Just have to try and fold your forearm in the middle a bit. And don't elbow her in the boob  Running Restoration Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/post323197.html#323197
Self confessed mileage hunter  |
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21st May 2015 10:11pm |
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| alby Member Since: 25 Dec 2014 Location: The Shire Posts: 159 
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Not sure of the legal implications, however having had a series three with a centre seat which I regularly used with three of us across the front I'm very aware of the practicalities of using it.
Is it something you really need to do? I only say this as personally I found that There was a real lack of space in a series three for the mid seat passenger, there was nowhere for feet, legs and knees, which made gear changes, erm tricky. Also worth bearing in mind a series 3 had a much less deep dashboard (fore to aft), and a much smaller transmission tunnel, both in terms of height and width so there was more space than in a puma defender to start with. Gear changes were difficult too, with a lack of elbow and arm room for the driver, although I think the throw of the puma gearstick isn't as long as in a series. Mind you I'm 6'3" 18st and broad shouldered, but my two shooting buddies were both 10st and short arses. Just my two pence worth. |
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21st May 2015 10:18pm |
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| AndrewS Member Since: 10 Apr 2007 Location: Hereford Posts: 3707 
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Do you really a centre seat? What if you have an accident? 130's have feeling's as well you know
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22nd May 2015 10:33am |
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| MrOl Member Since: 21 May 2015 Location: East Anglia Posts: 41 |
Re: accident....that's why I want to make sure the safety belt is correct and secure. Assuming a workable solution can be found with a 3 or four point belt, I can't see why it would be any less safe than the driver/passenger seat?
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22nd May 2015 11:00am |
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| Happyoldgit Member Since: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3471 
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Maybe the fact that there will be considerably less space for legs and feet for the middle seat passenger plus the close presence of gear levers and handbrake make the position inherently less safe. Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades. Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW. [Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc] http://forums.lr4x4.com I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic. |
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22nd May 2015 1:12pm |
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| andy---doe Member Since: 14 Mar 2015 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 188
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I nearly didn’t buy a Puma engine Defender because of this issue. I think the 3rd seat option on my TD5 was really useful and regularly had both children in the front with no issues.
I too looked at the option of fitting a centre seat and decided it wasn’t worth the hassle because of the belt issues and the diff lock touching the seat. What I did however purchase is a Defender with a forward facing, folding rear seat (with the correct seat belt.) I notified the insurance company in writing of this modification and it didn’t pose a problem. |
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25th May 2015 2:19pm |
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| MrOl Member Since: 21 May 2015 Location: East Anglia Posts: 41 |
Yup thought of this as an option but quite severely limits the space available for stuff in the back....so now on the hunt for a TD5 utility wagon...as third seat is legal and will fit a four point harness to make safe and secure. If anyone has seen one, let me know.
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25th May 2015 7:10pm |
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