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Home > Maintenance & Modifications > 2.2 Puma to Td5.....

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Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5816

2.2 Puma to Td5..... Hello all, Snowing here!! A question, if I may? Was chatting to my old man yesterday and he said he may be getting rid of one of his two 1st Gen Freelanders (one LHD/Auto and one RHD Manual). It got me thinking about the endless debate between Puma and Td5. I was thinking that the UK spec vehicle (which has full service history, never been dinged, done very low mileage - approx 40k, limited Off-road and is basically used to walk the dog or go shooting) might be worth buying to swap engines? I think I could get it for peanuts (indeed be given it). Is this worth doing (benefits of Puma spec with Td5 engine) or just a pipe-dream? Given I am in no way an aficionado, I wondered what everyone's point of view would be? Is a Puma to Td5 swap feasible and if so, worth it? Or is it way too complicated for the benefits (mixed electrics, transmission, gearing etc) if for the foreseeable future my 110 trips will likely be no further than Europe/Morocco. Long term aim will be to create an all-singing, all-dancing Overlander for which I understand (maybe wrongly) that the Td5 is better? Short term plan is to get a BAS re-map, intercooler/hose upgrade and EGR blank, so I wonder which would be the better engine if I made similar changes to the Td5 before swapping? Any thoughts? Worth buying for immediate/future swap, or simply too complicated and will require lots more parts etc to make the Td5 offer more than the 2.2 Puma for EU, road-biased use. Many thanks in advance..... Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

27th Feb 2015 11:53am

blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17382

Why on earth would you want to remove a TDCi to replace it with a TD5? They're both good engines, they both have weaknesses, and they both have their avid followers (who poo-poo the other of course)! If you want a TDCi, buy one, If you want a TD5, buy one. If you did you will have a number of problems, including but not limited to: - Unless you swap gearboxes as well (and lose the superior 6-speed box!) you will have a dangerously low first gear and no idle jack to compensate. I have no idea where the gear lever ends up if you swap the box too. - You will have to swap the ECU wilt the engine, and you will then have the problem of mating a non-CANbus ECU to a CABNbus Ipac, in effect the same problem that the people who retrofit Puma dashes into earlier vehicles. You will probaby find that you end up chopping the instrument panel aroudn to fit the TD5 display into the Puma dash. I'm sure that there will be other problems too, and it will be a LOT of work! To be honest a better approach is to decide which vehicle has the most features you like and stick with that.

27th Feb 2015 12:14pm

Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5816

Thanks Blackwolf. Still learning!! Will stick with 2.2, as I am perfectly happy with it and it seems it can be improved with a BAS map. Also prefer the spec, interior (dare I be naff and say 'look of the bonnet') etc. Was just wondering given the avid support the Td5 gets. Also agree, that a 6-speed is far preferred to 5. Thanks for clearing it up, pipe-dream now firmly put to bed!!  Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

27th Feb 2015 12:17pm

bob neville Member Since: 30 Apr 2009 Location: Marbella Posts: 3248	Just to add, I never even knew they fitted the TD5 lump in a Freelander ? TD4 was fitted and it was an excellent engine, had a TD4 FL for a couple of years. Bob 2015 Jaguar XE240 R Sport - goes like ....... !! 2013 Defender 90 CSW - sold 2009 Defender 110 Double Cab - sold 2001 TD5 90 CSW - offroad project - sold to a forum member 2011 Porsche Boxster - for the sunny days !
27th Feb 2015 12:21pm

Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5816	You could well be right. Doh.  Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
27th Feb 2015 12:26pm

dnorrishill Member Since: 15 Jul 2011 Location: Hampshire Posts: 615	I think he said he had first gen FL, which probably has some Rover car engine. As for the TD5 v TDCI - I have had both and really there is little difference, both capable engine in a Defender.
27th Feb 2015 12:36pm

sharkey964 Member Since: 05 Oct 2014 Location: On a muddy track Posts: 574	No Td5 was ever fitted in a Freelander by Land Rover......
27th Feb 2015 12:38pm

Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5816

Thanks dnorrishill. All my pre-ownership experience was in Military Defenders of various vintage. Then a gap of 7 years where I drove some Td5s and Pumas occasionally, but never regularly or back-to-back, so when I bought mine I couldn't tell the difference (except not hearing that reassuring 'whumpf' when accelerating in a Td5). Will stick with what I have and try and improve it....  Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

27th Feb 2015 12:40pm

Inigo Member Since: 13 Nov 2011 Location: Kent Posts: 617	The BAS remap is certainly worth considering. Makes it much more driveable, not just at the top end, in gear acceleration is much improved as well.
27th Feb 2015 1:14pm

bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069

Interesting discussion.. going from a 2.2 you loose the egr and dpf - i guess there will be a few high mileage 2.2s on here now, so it will be interesting to see how they perform long term and any issues arising from the engine. Td5's can have their egr's blocked without any need to remap, although i guess some of the tuners do this too with their magic 2.4's also have the egr locked to the ecu but no dpf You have also go to consider the governments, there are plans underway to ban ALL diesel vehicles in Paris by 2020 .. not sure how well thought out the plan is but it's an ambition ... how long until it spreads to other departments and other countries ? I've just come to the conclusion ... you need a 3.5 V8 - not sure if they have an ecu, but defo no egr, dpf or bad exhaust PM10s

27th Feb 2015 1:48pm

Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5816

Thanks BPMan. Would always prefer a V8, but will probably do so in some future 90 Bowler-esque project. Diesel much cheaper here, and anyone who drives in Paris must be mad, so no loss there....So I think it sounds like I stick with the 2.2, get a BAS re-map plus other mods (already begun chatting with Pete) and mod the be-jesus out of this one. It's my keeper. Although, having just watched the XCars vid, I still hanker after a Double Cab..... PS, EricVV says your heading to Geneva. Might be doing so myself from Chamonix. Be good to know when.... Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

27th Feb 2015 2:22pm

jimbob7 Member Since: 06 Jul 2013 Location: uk Posts: 2055	I thort modifying vehicles (engines) in France was a BIG no-no,as for going from Puma to TD5 in the uk,the TD5 would have to have the same (or better) emissions as the Puma. Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5.
27th Feb 2015 2:48pm

steventheplumber Member Since: 29 Apr 2014 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 767	Would not mind a drive in the 3.2l freelander!
27th Feb 2015 2:51pm

need4speed Member Since: 23 Nov 2012 Location: Kilmarnock Posts: 746	blackwolf wrote: Why on earth would you want to remove a TDCi to replace it with a TD5? Because it sounds better. Its more reliable. More tuning potential. Apart from that no reason
27th Feb 2015 3:00pm

bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069	Grenadier wrote: your heading to Geneva. Might be doing so myself from Chamonix. Be good to know when.... you have a PM
27th Feb 2015 3:21pm

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