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| ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1782   
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I know that 10 years plus ago, the crash trucks the company I used to work for supplied to the forces had to run on Avtur, these were Detroit Diesel two strokes, and I think they've been refitted with Caterpillar engines since.
I'm not sure if the TDCI would like it though, the earlier turbo diesels and tdi's will run on most rubbish though, chip oil, home brew! |
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21st Sep 2014 3:46pm |
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| uncas Member Since: 22 Nov 2012 Location: Wentworth near Rotherham Posts: 340 
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Don't do it kerosene doesn't have the same lubrication properties as Derv
Uncas |
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21st Sep 2014 6:56pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610 
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The closest I can get is that aircraft fuel tanks are subject to water sediment checks the excess from the samples did quite often find it's way into diesel engined vehicles. But your work colleague is definitely talking rot! If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!! Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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21st Sep 2014 8:42pm |
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| derbywill Member Since: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 558  
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Wasn't the td5 designed to run on avgas and diesel ? I believe I read the U.S. army had some soley to be run on it.
Will 2005 90 XS 1954 86'' Series 1 tilt 1968 88” 2A 200tdi 2002 110 Hardtop |
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21st Sep 2014 9:53pm |
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| Lou Sparts Member Since: 15 Apr 2012 Location: Kent Posts: 1501 
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Td5 engine development work was done running on kerosene so should be ok for these engines. Other Diesel engines with a high pressure pump will suffer accellarated pump wear as kerosene has less lubricity than diesel. 2005 Td5 90 XS
Steve |
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22nd Sep 2014 4:05pm |
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| Natlas Member Since: 20 Mar 2013 Location: West Sussex Posts: 460 
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Jet fuel and diesel are similar but chemically different fuels. The engines might run but probably not with normal performance and possible harmful side effects as mentioned elsewhere. After all, you can get a TDCi to run on a high petrol mix but it won't do it any good. 2.2 90 XS
88" Series One Old Norton 
Minerva |
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22nd Sep 2014 5:06pm |
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| DoubleA84 Member Since: 11 Sep 2014 Location: N.Ireland Posts: 9 
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I ran my 300 tdi on pure veg oil for a while, apart from smelling like a chip shop it ran fine but the MPG went down to about 18mpg!!
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23rd Sep 2014 10:26pm |
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| Buccaneer Member Since: 11 May 2014 Location: London/Kabul Posts: 148 
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All US Army vehicles run on kerosene. This is done to shorten the supply lines and reduce the number of fuels they have to bring on operations. Can't vouch for the UK mil as i haven't worked with them for years. But every Op i have done with either US Mil or ISAF we have used Kerosene in our vehicles if getting fuel supplied by them.
We used to find the Land Cruisers with doors removed, 5 up and probably 300kgs of supplies on would top out at around 160kph. Only problem was the piston rings got destroyed along with the fuel pump and engine was killed in around 15,000kms. We did add a can of engine oil to the fuel when we could. The Rules:- 1 Buccaneer comes back alive. 2 Chicks dig scars. GB260 |
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24th Sep 2014 6:00am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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Very true Buccaneer. The 'Spam' fuel was invariably of a very low quality. Their aircraft fuel (JP series) was also of an inferior quality due to the fact it never used to have any anti fungicidal or ant icing additives. We could run our aircraft for a maximum of 28 days on that stuff before it either had to be refuelled with our UK stuff or when the aircraft returned to the UK it had to be totally defuelled and then refuelled with UK grade Avtur F-34. I believe they now cut their fuel with the same additives as us.
If Kerosine was exactly the same as diesel at approximately 50-55 pence per litre why aren't we all running our Defenders on what is esentially heating oil? If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!! Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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24th Sep 2014 9:20am |
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| RFT Member Since: 13 Nov 2010 Location: Cheshire Posts: 678 
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Use of zero duty Jet Fuel in a vehicle would fall foul of The Hydrocarbon Oil Duties Act 1979 (HODA) and HMRC Inspectors
Although lower in lubricity Kero is still used in many piston engines, even in light aircraft, Jet A1 is used in engines based upon a Mercedes Diesel, see http://www.continentaldiesel.com/typo3/index.php?id=2&L=1. Ground vehicles at air bases often run on Military Spec Kero. 130 Puma HCPU with an Artica 240LR Demountable Camper |
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24th Sep 2014 10:50am |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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If Kerosine had certain lubricity and anti freezing additives added to make it 'Military Spec,' would it then perhaps make it Derv? The pumps were always labelled as such at the bases I was at. I think (but cannot be 100% sure) it was just the Ground Equipment ground power sets, air starters (LPASTs) etc. that were run on Kerosine? Chemically Kerosine and Diesel are not that far apart. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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24th Sep 2014 11:30am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17383 
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Certain US military vehicles do indeed have multifuel engines, perhaps the best known example being the M35 series of trucks (known widely as "Whistlers". As pointed out above, you cannot run a road vehicle on any form of untaxed fuel in the UK, so running on Jet A or kerosene etc is not an option (the penalties for running on untaxed fuel are serious).
The only real benefit of a true multifuel engine (and a useful facet of Whistler ownership) is the ability to run on "Contam", which is the contaminated fuel pumped out from vehicles misfueled at filling stations. Contam is a probelm to dispose of and disposal costs the pump-out company a fair amount, so usually they are happy to give it away to anyone who wants it. Better still, because all the relevent fuel duties have already been paid, it is fully legal to use as a road fuel. Buy yourself a Whistler! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...witzer.jpg |
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24th Sep 2014 11:41am |
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| Grey110 Member Since: 20 Jun 2012 Location: Delft Posts: 35 
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I prefer a multifuel Tatra T813
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tatra_813_KOLOS_1.jpg Martin Previous 2003 Defender 110 Hardtop TD5 2004 Defender 110 Station Wagon TD5 - Libyan Sand 2005 Discovery 3 - V8 - Black |
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24th Sep 2014 3:55pm |
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| Jonesy_9203 Member Since: 05 Sep 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2 
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I can say with authority that the RAF run the vehicle fleet on derv.
While it is technically possible to run a diesel engine on AVTUR there are problems associated with it, namely that it causes the engine to run hotter burning out valve seats and piston rings and also tends to degrade rubber fuel seals. |
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24th Sep 2014 5:58pm |
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